YCQM: October 28, 2012 - WCAX.COM Local Vermont News, Weather and Sports-

YCQM: October 28, 2012

>> Announcer: FROM VERMONT'S MOST TRUSTED NEWS SOURCE, WCAX BRINGS YOU YOUR NEWSMAKERS, YOUR NEIGHBORS. THIS IS "YOU CAN QUOTE ME."

>>> GOOD MORNING EVERYONE. THANKS FOR JOINING US. I'M KRISTEN CARLSON. TODAY WE'RE FOCUSING ON THE UPCOMING ELECT. I'M JOINED BY JACK LINDLEY, THE HEAD OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND JAKE PERKINSON, THE HEAD OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. GENTLEMEN, THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE'RE GETTING INTO CRUNCH TIME, BUT FIRST I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON THIS QUESTION, EACH OF YOU. WE'LL START WITH JAKE HERE. IN VERMONT, DO YOU THINK THE PARTY MATTERS MORE OR THAT THE INDIVIDUAL CANDIDATE AND PERSON THAT PEOPLE VOTE FOR?

>> WELL, I THINK WHEN PEOPLE GO TO THE POLLS, I THINK A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH THEIR PERSONAL CONNECTION WITH THE CANDIDATE. I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE USE PARTIES FOR SHORTHAND AND THERE ARE CERTAINLY PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY DEDICATED TO ONE PARTY OR THE OTHER, AND SO I THINK IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, THAT CERTAINLY MOVES THEIR VOTE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, BUT I THINK AS WE'VE SEEN ELECTION AFTER ELECTION, VERMONTERS REALLY PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE VOTING FOR AND I THINK THAT IT'S TRUE IN THE LEGISLATURE AND I THINK IT'S ALSO TRUE IN STATEWIDE RACES, THAT IN THE CHOICE BETWEEN PARTY AND PERSON, THE PERSON WHAT IS REALLY WINS OUT IN THE ESTIMATION OF MOST VOTERS' MINDS.

>> MR. LINDLEY, PERSONAL, POLITICS?

>> I WOULDN'T DISAGREE TO THE TOTALLY WITH THAT, BUT I THINK IN OUR HISTORY HERE IN THE STATE, IT'S BEEN IMPORTANT THAT PARTY IDENTIFICATION HAS A BEARING ALONG WITH THE ISSUES THAT PEOPLE PUT FORWARD AND I AGREE WITH JAKE THAT THERE IS A LOT OF PERSONAL INTERACTION BETWEEN THE VOTERS AND THEIR CANDIDATES AND PEOPLE KNOW EVERYBODY. WE'RE ONLY 600,000 PEOPLE IN THE WHOLE STATE, SO IT'S POSSIBLE TO KNOW ANYBODY. I'M SURE JAKE GETS STOPPED ON THE STREET AS WELL AS I DO. THERE'S NO ANONYMITY IN VERMONT WHEN IT COMES TO KNOWING YOUR CANDIDATES AND YOUR OFFICE HOLDERS.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE TONE OF SOME OF THE RACES IN GENERAL. AS A REPORTER, WE GET A LOT OF EMAILS FROM THE CAMPAIGNS, A LOT OF EMAILS FROM THE PARTIES AS WELL, AND I SEE A LOT OF LANGUAGE USED THAT SEEMS NEW TO ME AND I WANT TO SEE IF IT'S NEW TO YOU FOLKS. THIS IDEA OF CAMPAIGNS CALLING EACH OTHER LIARS IN EMAILS. IS THAT A NEW DEVELOPMENT TO YOU OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON IN VERMONT?

>> I THINK THAT YOU CAN'T REALLY MAKE BROAD GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN VERMONT. I THINK EACH CAMPAIGN IS UNIQUE AND DIFFERENT, AND CERTAINLY WE HAVE BEEN SEEING KIND OF A RATCHETING UP OF THE POLITICAL RHETORIC IN RECENT YEARS. I THINK THAT'S UNFORTUNATE. I THINK THAT IN VERMONT, THE ELECTION CYCLES THAT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN, THAT REALLY HASN'T BEEN THE CASE AND I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT IN PERCEIVING THAT THERE'S THIS INCREASE IN VITRIOL, WHICH I THINK IS VERY UNFORTUNATE. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONTRIBUTES TO THAT LEVEL, AS JACK POINTED OUT, HERE IN VERMONT, WE KNOW EACH OTHER AND PEOPLE ARE ACCOUNTABLE. I THINK THAT'S WHAT MAKES VERMONT A CIVIL STATE. YOU CAN'T GET AWAY WITH CALLING SOMEBODY ON LIAR AND THINK YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO SEE THEM AGAIN. HOWEVER, WHEN YOU HAVE ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE SUPER-PACs, LIKE VERMONTERS FIRST, A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL HIDING BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND HAS NO ACCOUNTABILITY TO ANYBODY, THAT ENCOURAGES THAT KIND OF RHETORIC, ENCOURAGES IN MY MIND THIS KIND OF FEELING OF NO NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO ANYBODY AND I THINK THAT RATCHETS UP THE POLITICAL RHETORIC AND THAT'S ONE FACTOR.

>> I FIND THE DISCOURSE HAS REACHED A LEVEL THAT'S NOT VERY HELPFUL TO THE NORMAL FOLKS ON THE STREET. I PERSONALLY FIND THAT OFFENSIVE, HAVE SO DIRECTED AND YOU WON'T FIND COMING OUT OF OUR STATE PARTY OPERATION THAT TYPE OF LANGUAGE BEING USED. I JUST THINK THAT VERMONTERS ARE SMART, THEY'RE THOUGHTFUL, AND THE DISCOURSE NEEDS TO BE SMART AND THOUGHTFUL ALONG WITH IT. AND THE VITRIOL THAT HAS COME ON TO THE STAGE BOTH NATIONALLY AND IN SOME CASES HERE IN VERMONT IS REGRETTABLE. IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT WHERE VERMONT HAS GONE IN ITS PAST NOR WILL IT IN ITS FUTURE, AND IT WILL PASS IN TIME, BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT THE FRUSTRATION AND THE FRUSTRATION COMES BETWEEN THE FACT THAT WE HAVE AN EXTREMELY LARGE MAJORITY OF ONE PARTY VERSUS ANOTHER. BACK IN MY YOUTH, IT WAS REPUBLICANS WERE IN THE HUGE MAJORITY AND DEMOCRATS WERE VERY SMALL, BUT WE SEEM TO ALL WORK TOGETHER UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES. IT'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT MORE DIFFICULT, I THINK, WITH THE ARROGANCE OF SOME OF THE DISCOURSE THAT WE'VE SEEN BY ONE POLITICAL PARTY OVER ANOTHER, AND THAT'S -- THAT IS REGRETTABLE AND IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED AS SOON AS IT POSSIBLY CAN.

>> I'M SURE MR. PERKINSON, YOU CAN SELL WHAT MR. LINDLEY IS TALKING ABOUT, THE FACT THAT THERE IS ONE PARTY IN MONTPELIER, THE DEMOCRATS CONTROL THE HOUSE, THE SENATE, THEY ALSO HAVE THE GOVERNOR'S SEAT AS WELL. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT SYSTEM IS GOOD FOR VERMONT TO HAVE ONE PARTY RULE LIKE THAT?

>> WELL, AGAIN, I THINK THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ELECTIONS IN VERMONT, PEOPLE VOTE FOR THE PERSON AND AS JACK POINTED OUT, THEY ALSO VOTE FOR THE PARTY AND TO THE EXTENT THAT THAT PARTY REPRESENTS THE VALUES THAT THEY HOLD. AND I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IN VERMONT, THE REASON THAT WE HAVE MAJORITIES IN BOTH HOUSES OF THE LEGISLATURE, THE REASON THAT WE HAVE THE GOVERNOR'S SEAT, THE REASON THAT WE HAVE THE SOLE REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS AND THE SENIOR SENATOR IN -- SOLE MEMBER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE SENIOR MEMBER OF THE SENATE ALL BEING DEMOCRATS IS THAT THE MESSAGE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, THE PRINCIPLES OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY REFLECT THE PRIORITIES OF THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN VERMONT. THIS ISN'T A TOP-DOWN ORGANIZATION. WE DON'T SAY YOU HAVE TO VOTE FOR US. PEOPLE HAVE A CHOICE OF WHOM TO VOTE FOR AND THEY VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS AND THE REASON THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE THESE MAJORITIES AND HAVE SO MANY POSITIONS IN STATEWIDE GOVERNMENT IS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE VOTING FOR THE PEOPLE WHO THEY THINK AND BELIEVE WILL DO THE BEST JOB FOR THEM.

>> DO YOU THINK THIS IS, YOU KNOW -- MR. LINDLEY REFERENCES THE FACT THAT VERMONT WAS A REPUBLICAN STATE AND THE STATE NOW, IF YOU LOOK AT A LOT OF ELECTED OFFICES, AS YOU MENTIONED, SEEMS LIKE A DEMOCRATIC STATE. DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANOTHER SWING IN THE WORKS HERE OR DO YOU THINK THIS IS JUST A PROJECTION OF THE STATE TO COME?

>> I THINK WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENED IS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE TWO PARTIES EVEN NATIONALLY, YOU SEE A REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT HAS SWUNG VERY MUCH MORE TOWARDS THE LEFT.

>> BUT HERE IN VERMONT.

>> I THINK IT'S REFLECTIVE HERE IN VERMONT AS WELL. I THINK THE LEADERSHIP THAT STARTED -- I DON'T THINK THE CHANGE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY STARTED IN VERMONT. I THINK IT STARTED ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL WHERE YOU SAW MUCH MORE OF A CONSERVATIVE RHETORIC AND MUCH MORE OF A POLARIZATION OF POSITIONS AND A WILLINGNESS TO DO THINGS SIMPLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF BEING ELECTED RATHER THAN FOR THE PURPOSE OF MOVING OUR COUNTRY FORWARD AND I THINK THAT HAS TRICKLED DOWN, UNFORTUNATELY, TO VERMONT WHERE HERE WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE BASICALLY THE RHETORIC OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THE CONSERVATIVE MESSAGING IN VERMONT AND THIS ELECTION CYCLE IS BASICALLY ATTRIBUTABLE TO ONE PERSON, A MULTIMILLIONAIRE WHO IS BASICALLY COOPTED THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND IT HAS BECOME HER SHOW. WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU'RE BOUND TO HAVE THE EXTREMISM WHICH TURNS, QUITE FRANKLY, TURNS PEOPLE OFF.

>> LET'S GET JACK LINDLEY'S TAKE ON THIS.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING RHETORIC, AND NOT VERY HELPFUL. I DON'T THINK THAT REPUBLICANS GENERALLY ARE -- SHOULD BE PUT IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS EXTREMISTS AND WE'RE NOT RULED BY ONE PERSON. WE HAVE A BIG TENT WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT OPINIONS, AND WE ARE BECOMING MORE AND MORE SUCCESSFUL IN VERMONT, AND I'M SUSPICIOUS THAT MY GOOD FRIEND, WHO IS ARGUING ON THE FACT THAT ONE PERSON HAS PUT SOME MONEY -- SERIOUS MONEY IN THE CAMPAIGNS, MAY BE IN FACT IMPACTING SOME OF THE MANY RACES THAT ARE ACROSS THE STATE OF VERMONT. BUT I DON'T -- I DON'T FOLLOW HIS LOGIC. THE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT -- THE ISSUES ARE ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE THIS YEAR. IT'S THE ECONOMY, IT'S JOBS, IT'S JOB CREATION. IT'S ALL OF THE IMPORTANT ISSUES THAT AFFECT THE POCKETBOOK AND WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE AND THE AIR IS CLEARED, IT IS THE ECONOMY, IT WILL BE THE ECONOMY THAT WILL DRIVE PEOPLE TO VOTE WITHOUT REGARD, REALLY, TO DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICANS. THE REPUBLICANS REPRESENT A BETTER FEEL FOR THE FUTURE, A VISION FOR THE FUTURE, IF YOU WILL, THAT IS MORE PROACTIVE, AND I TEND TO BELIEVE --

>> BUT I HAVE TO JUST INTERJECT HERE. IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHY DO YOU THINK THERE AREN'T MORE REPUBLICANS ELECTED IN VERMONT? OUR HIGHEST OFFICE OLDER IS SCOTT, BUT BELOW THAT, IT GETS --

>> FRANKLY, ITS DIFFICULT TO FATE IN VERMONT POLITICS. THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, FOR INSTANCE, HAS GOTTEN LONGER AND LONGER, AND SMALL BUSINESS PEOPLE, WHERE AN AWFUL LOT OF REPUBLICANS ARE, DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO BE ABLE TO DEVOTE TO PUBLIC SERVICE, AND SO YOU GET PEOPLE THAT COME HERE FOR WHATEVER REASONS AND HAVE TIME TO DEDICATE TO PUBLIC SERVICE, AND THEY DON'T NECESSARILY REPRESENT THE HARD-WORKING PEOPLE IN THEIR DISTRICTS, BUT THAT REPUBLICANS ON LARGE HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING CANDIDATES WHO ARE, FRANKLY, JUST BARELY HOLDING ON BY THE FINGERTIPS RIGHT NOW TO BE ABLE TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITIES. AND SO PEOPLE WHO ARE HARD-WORKING REPUBLICANS HAVE GOT TO MAKE AN EVEN BIGGER COMMITMENT TO BE INVOLVED IN PUBLIC SERVICE, AND UP UNTIL NOW, IT HASN'T HAPPENED.

>> SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, LET'S JUST FINISH THIS THREAD, IF THIS IS THE CASE, THEN HOW DO YOU SEE ANY HOPE FOR THE FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

>> WELL, I SEE A LOT OF -- A WEAKENING, IF YOU WILL, OF REPUBLICANS EVERYWHERE BECAUSE OF WHAT HAS BEEN PUT THROUGH IN MONTPELIER IN TERMS OF HIGHER TAXES, A CHANGE IN THE HEALTHCARE PROGRAM THAT'S SCARING AN AWFUL LOT OF SMALL BUSINESS PEOPLE. ALL OF THE ISSUES, WHETHER IT BE FRANCHISE TAXES THAT LOOK TO BE ON THE HORIZON, ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT AFFECT PEOPLE DIRECTLY AND THEIR BUSINESSES ARE STARING REPUBLICANS RIGHT IN THE FACE AND SO THEY'RE NOW REALIZING THAT THEY HAVE TO STEP FORWARD. WE HAVE GOOD CANDIDATES RUNNING THIS YEAR. WE HAVE GOOD LEGISLATIVE CANDIDATES. WE LOOK TO GROW OUR MAJORITIES IN THE HOUSE AND TRY TO, YOU KNOW --

>> GROW YOUR NUMBERS.

>> YEAH, WELL, IF WE COULD GRAB THE MAJORITY, WE WOULD HAVE THE SPEAKERSHIP. IT'S PLAUSIBLE WE COULD DO THAT. WE HAVE 76 REPUBLICANS RUNNING. WHETHER WE COULD ACTUALLY PUT EVERYBODY OVER THE GOAL LINE, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE'D ALL PRAY FOR, BUT WE NEED TO DO THAT.

>> LET ME ASK JAKE PERKINSON SOMETHING. YOU'VE BROUGHT THIS UP SEVERAL TIMES NOW, I'VE SEEN A LOT OF EMAILS COME ACROSS ABOUT THIS. THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY SEEMS VERY UPSET ABOUT THIS ONE VERMONT WOMAN WHO HAS DONATED MONEY TO A SUPER-PAC. IT IS COMPLETELY LEGAL, IT IS COMPLETELY WITHIN HER RIGHT. SHE IS NOT BREAKING THE LAW. THERE HAVE BEEN GROUPS WHO HAVE DECIDED TO PROTEST OUTSIDE HER HOME. YOU TALK ABOUT THE TONE. DO YOU THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR PEOPLE TO BE PROTESTING OUTSIDE INDIVIDUAL VERMONTERS' HOMES LIKE THAT?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE VERMONT DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT PROTEST. THAT WAS AN INDEPENDENT GROUP, SO I REALLY CAN'T SPEAK TO THE MOTIVATIONS BEHIND --

>> DO YOU THINK THAT'S AN APPROPRIATE THING TO DO?

>> WELL, I THINK WHAT IT REPRESENTS AS FRUSTRATION WITH THE REALITY THAT WE ARE IN. YOU ARE CORRECT, SPENDING MONEY, INDEPENDENT SPENDEXPENDITURE IN A CAMPAIGN IS LEGAL. I DO TAKE ISSUE WITH THE ASSERTION THAT EVERYTHING THEY'RE DOING IS LEGAL.

>> I'M SAYING WHAT SHE IS DOING --

>> I AGREE WITH THAT. HOWEVER, THE ORGANIZATION HAS ALSO VIOLATED CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS ON AT LEAST THREE OCCASIONS THAT WE KNOW OF.

>> THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HASN'T RULED ON THAT. YOU'VE ASKED HIM TO INVESTIGATE.

>> WELL, I HAVE SPENT MANY YEARS PRACTICING LAW AND I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW, THAT'S A VIOLATION, WHETHER THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DECIDES TO GO FORWARD OR NOT, THE FAILURE TO FILE THE MASS MEDIA REPORT IN AN APPROPRIATE WAY AS VIOLATION OF THE LAW. SO THEY VIOLATED THE LAW, BUT BEYOND THAT, WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS A FRUSTRATION WITH THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE, BECAUSE OF A CONSERVATIVE SUPREME COURT, THE REALITY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WHERE NOT ONLY DO PEOPLE HAVE FREE SPEECH, BUT RICH PEOPLE HAVE MORE SPEECH THAN POOR PEOPLE. THAT'S THE REALITY.

>> ARE YOU SAYING, FOR EXAMPLE, SENATOR SANDERS, HE'S RAISED $7 MILLION. HIS OPPONENT, THE REPUBLICAN, HAS RAISED PERHAPS 30,000 OR SO AROUND THAT POINT. IS SENATOR SANDERS BEING HAMPERED BY THIS?

>> HERE'S THE DIFFERENCE. SENATOR SANDERS HAS GOTTEN CONTRIBUTIONS FROM LITERALLY, I THINK, OVER 100,000 PEOPLE.

>> 90% OUT OF STATE.

>> RIGHT. HOWEVER, IT'S AN ORGANIZATION THAT HAS RAISED MONEY FROM INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTIONS, SO IT'S MORE OF A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS WHERE YOU HAVE THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE BASICALLY POOLING THEIR MONEY FOR A CAUSE THAT THEY BELIEVE IN AS OPPOSED TO A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO, FROM THE TOP DOWN, IS SPENDING MORE MONEY THAN ANY PARTY, ANY ORGANIZATION, AND ANY POLITICAL CANDIDATE THIS CYCLE.

>> DO YOU THINK, JAKE PERKINSON, THAT WHAT RACE WILL THIS IMPACT? AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, VERMONTERS HAVE SEEN A HIGH SPENDING RACING AND I MENTIONED SENATOR SANDERS AND HE RAN AGAINST RICH TERRANT, OUTSPENT HIM D NOT WIN. CAN YOU POINT TO WHAT RACES THIS ONE WOMAN AND HER DONATIONS TO THE SUPER-PAC IS GOING TO IMPACT AT THE END OF THE DAY?

>> I THINK SHE'S GOING TO IMPACT -- ANY AMOUNT OF SPENDING IMPACTS A RACE. SHE'S GOING TO IMPACT --

>> CHANGE THE OUTCOME?

>> THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN. I HOPE NOT, BUT I THINK THERE'S A CREDIBLE THREAT THAT THE AMOUNT OF SPENDING SHE'S ZON IS GOING TO CHANGE THASE RACES. FIRST OF ALL, WE ALREADY SAW THIS IN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S PRIMARY WHERE A SUPER-PAC CAME IN AND I HAVEN'T TALKED TO ANYBODY WHO DOESN'T THINK THAT SUPER-PAC MONEY SPENDING IN THE TOERGE GENERAL'S PRIMARY DIDN'T IMPACT THAT RACE. IN THE RACES SPECIFICALLY HERE, WE KNOW SHE'S SPENDING ON HOUSE RACES AND TRADITIONALLY THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF MONEY SPENT ON THEM BY EITHER CHALLENGERS OR INCUMBENTS, SO A SMALL AMOUNT OF SPENDING GOES A LONG WAY. MOST IMPORTANTLY O A STATEWIDE BASIS, SHE STARTED OUT SENATOR ALUZI'S BID FOR AUDITOR AND THEN SWITCHED MOSTLY TO SUPPORTING WENDY WILTON TO BECOME TREASURER. THE AMOUNT OF MONEY IS IN THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, I DON'T THINK IT'S CREDIBLE TO THINKS'S NOT GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THAT RACE. WHETHER IT ACTUALLY PUTS WENDY WILTON OVER THE TOP, I HOPE IT DOESN'T, BUT, YOU KNOW, BUT IT CERTAINLY PRESENTS A THREAT THAT IT'S GOING TO IMPACT PEOPLE'S PERCEPTION OF THE RACE.

>> WELL, JACK LINDLEY, AS SUPER-PAC BY A SINGLE VERMONTER GOING TO THREATEN THE ELECTION?

>> I WISH MY FRIEND UNDERSTANDS WHAT HAPPENED IN THE POLITICAL PARTIES IN VERMONT AND THEY HAVE BEEN CO-OPTED ESSENTIALLY BY POLITICAL ACTION ACTIVITY. ITS REGRETTABLE. WE HAVE LIMITATIONS AS PARTIES ON HOW MUCH MONEY WE CAN RECEIVE FROM INDIVIDUALS. PACs HAVE NO LIMITATIONS. THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF REFORM THAT NEEDS TO GO INTO PLACE TO REBUILD OUR PARTY STRUCTURE AND IT'S QUITE REGRETTABLE THAT IT'S BEEN ALLOWED OVER TIME TO ERODE HERE IN VERMONT FOR WHATEVER PURPOSES IT WAS, BUT I WISH HE WOULD JOIN ME IN TRYING TO REHABILITATE OUR SYSTEM, OUR ELECTION SYSTEM IN VERMONT SO THAT PARTIES COULD BE AS STRONG AS POLITICAL ACTION GROUPS. AND THE REASON THE PARTIES NEED TO BE RE- -- JUST REJUVENATED AND ALLOWED TO FLOURISH IN MY JUDGMENT IS YOU GET A MUCH BROADER SPECTRUM ON ISSUES AND POLICIES, DEBATE AND ALL OF THAT KIND OF ACTIVITY, WHICH IS GOOD. I AGREE THAT PACs HAVE HAD A MAJOR PROBLEM. I HAVE MYSELF FILED AN OBJECTION TO HIS DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY ISSUE IN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AND THAT'S HOW BEFORE OUR STATES ATTORNEY IN ADDISON COUNTY WHO IS A HARD-WORKING INDIVIDUAL WHO IS LOOKING AT THE EVIDENCE THAT I HAVE PROVIDED WITH HIM ON THE COORDINATION THAT WAS DONE BETWEEN FORMER GOVERNOR DEAN AND WILLIAM SORREL, AND SO THE PACKS DO HAVE THESE MOMENTS WHERE THEY DO PLAY A SIGNIFICANT PART IN VARIOUS CAMPAIGNS. BUT WHAT WE NEED IS REFORM HERE IN VERMONT THAT ALLOWS OUR PARTIES TO RECEIVE MORE THAN $10,000, WHICH IS A, IS JUST A TERRIBLY LOW AMOUNT, AND WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO BE TREATED NOT AS SECOND-CLASS CITIZENS OR RED-HEADED STEP DAUGHTERS. THE PARTIES, BOTH THE DEMOCRAT PARTY AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAVE STRONG TRADITIONS, AND REPRESENT BROAD -- A BROAD MAJORITY OF VOTERS, AND THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO OPERATE IN VERMONT.

>> I SEE JAKE PERKINSON NODDING. LET'S GET YOU'RE TAKE ON THAT. IS THIS AN AREA WHERE YOU AGREE?

>> ABSOLUTELY, KRISTIN, I AGREE WITH JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT MY FRIEND JACK JUST SAID. I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE THE FULL, YOU KNOW -- I THINK THAT THE REALITY IS, AS JACK POINTED OUT, THE PARTIES REPRESENT THE ABILITY OF INDIVIDUALS TO COME TOGETHER AROUND IDEAS, WHEREAS PACs REPRESENT THE ABILITY OF AN INDIVIDUAL TO COME AROUND AND FORCE THEIR ISSUES DOWN EVERYBODY'S THROAT, SO I REALLY DO AGREE WITH JACK THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A FOCUS ABOUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO ABOUT CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM IN THE FUTURE AND I'M HAPPY TO WORK TOGETHER WITH JACK TO MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS. I DO AGREE WITH HIM THAT IN THE CONTEXT WE HAVE, I DECRY THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT'S IN POLITICS, SO I HESITATE TO SAY THAT ANYBODY SHOULD BE GETTING MORE MONEY. HOWEVER, WHEN WE HAVE A POLITICAL REALITY AND A LEGAL REALITY WHERE SUPER-PACs ARE ABLE TO RAISE UNLIMITED AMOUNTS OF MONEY, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY ADVISABLE THAT THE LIMITS ON PARTY FUNDRAISING BE LIFTED AS WELL.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE TREASURERS RACE. A LOT OF OBSERVERS HAVE CALLED THIS THE RACE TO WATCH. IT BECOME AN INTERESTING CONTEST WITH BOTH SIDES GOING BACK AND FORTH, LET'S GET YOUR TAKE ON THIS RACE. START WITH THE REPUBLICAN.

>> I THINK WE HAVE THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IS A VERY STRONG CANDIDATE, DONE A MARVELOUS JOB IN RUTLAND, IS THE TREASURER IN RUTLAND, IN TRYING TO REESTABLISH RUTLAND'S FINANCIAL CREDIBILITY, WHICH WAS NOT VERY GOOD SHAPE. SHE'S RAISED SOME SIGNIFICANT ISSUES WITH REGARD TO TRANSPARENCY, AND I THINK SHE IS -- REALLY HAS A LOT OF TRACTION WITH HER CAMPAIGN. SHE'S VERY ACTIVE, SHE'S AROUND. SHE'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE OUTPENT, BUT I THINK IN THE -- OUTSPENT, BUT I THINK IN THE END, WENDY WILTON WILL BE OUR NEXT TREASURER IN VERMONT.

>> THE DEMOCRATIC VIEWS?

>> I THINK THERE'S SIMPLY NO QUESTION THAT BETH PIERCE IS MORE QUALIFIED TO DO THE JOB OF TREASURER. SHE'S DONE IT. FOR HER LAST TERM, SHE WAS A DEPUTY TREASURER FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. SHE HAS WIDESPREAD AND BROAD-BASED APPEAL AND SUPPORT AMONG BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT VERMONT WILL BE VERY WELL SERVED WITH BETH PIERCE AS -- CONTINUING AS TREASURER. AS FOR MS. WILTON, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE MAY BE OUTSPENT PERSONALLY, BUT AS WE MENTIONED, THE SUPER-PAC SUPPORTING WENDY WILTON IS GOING TO FAR OUTSPEND ANY EFFORTS THAT TREASURER PIERCE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO MAKE ON BEHALF OF HERSELF, AND SO I THINK THAT'S VERY UNFORTUNATE. I THINK THAT IS ALSO PART OF WHAT HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE SORRY NATURE OF THE DISCOURSE THAT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN SET IN THAT RACE WHERE ALLEGATIONS ARE BEING THROWN THAT JUST HAVE NO BASIS IN FACT. WHERE SOMEBODY WOULD FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE BASED ON QUESTIONS RATHER THAN ANY ACTUAL ALLEGATIONS AND I THINK THAT'S JUST NOT THE WAY THAT WE NEED TO DO POLITICS IN VERMONT. WE NEED TO STICK TO THE FACTS, NEED TO SEE WHO'S ACTUALLY GOING TO DO THE BETTER JOB AND WENDY WILTON, IN FACT, WAS SURPRISED TO FIND THAT HER OWN TOWN WAS ON THE BOND BANK'S WATCH LIST.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE TONE BECAUSE FROM THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE, BETH PIERCE, HER CAMPAIGN HAS, IN EMAILS, CALLED WENDY WILTON A LIAR. YOU MENTIONED THE DISCOURSE AND SOME OF THE CONCERN YOU HAVE. IS THAT APPROPRIATE LANGUAGE FOR CAMPAIGNS TO USE IN EMAILS?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT WHAT BETH PEER'S CAMPAIGN IS DOING IS SIMPLY RESPONDING TO THE FACT THAT WENDY WILTON IS LYING.

>> SO THAT'S A YES?

>> YES, I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO RESPOND, WHEN SOMEBODY LIES, I DON'T THINK YOU SIT BACK AND TAKE IT. I THINK YOU NEED TO POINT OUT TO THE PUBLIC THAT THIS PERSON IS LYING.

>> I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANY EVIDENCE OF THAT. I THINK THAT'S PRETTY HARSH AND PROBABLY NOT IN KEEPING WITH THE VERMONT TRADITION OF DEBATE THAT SHOULD BE CIVIL AND IT'S REGRETTABLE IT'S BEING USED BY ONE CANDIDATE AND I THINK IN THE END, THAT WILL DO A GREAT DISSERVICE TO HER CAMPAIGN TO BE USING THAT TYPE OF RHETORIC.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S RACE. WE HOPPED INTO THE TREASURER'S RACE, BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S RACE BETWEEN THE INCUMBENT, DEMOCRAT PETER SHUMLIN AND THE OPPONENT RANDY BROCK. THE TONE OF THIS CAMPAIGN AS LOT DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS TWO YEARS AGO, WHICH WAS A FEISTY RACE FOR THE OPEN SEAT. WHAT KIND OF RACE DO YOU THINK RANDY BROCK IS RUNNING? LET ME ASK THE DEMOCRAT THIS.

>> I GOT TO SAY, I FEEL SOME SYMPATHY FOR RANDY. I THINK HE HAS A TOUGH ROW TO HOE. HE FACES AN INCUMBENT WHO'S DONE AN AMAZING JOB? RESPONDING TO ONE OF THE GRAYEST NATURAL DISASTERS TO STRIKE VERMONT. HE'S FACED WITH AN INCUMBENT WHO HAS INCREASED JOBS IN VERMONT, HAS A CLEAR PLAN FOR THE FUTURE, SOMEONE WHO HAS HIMSELF VERY BROAD-BASED APPEAL, SO I THINK THAT RANDY HAS, AS I SAID, A VERY STIFF CHALLENGE AHEAD OF HIM. I DON'T THINK IT DONE AN EFFECTIVE JOB IN DEMONSTRATING WHY PETER SHUMLIN SHOULDN'T BE GIVEN ANOTHER TERM. I THINK GOVERNOR SHUMLIN HAS DONE A FAN TASIVELG JOB AND HE'S GOING TO BE -- FANTASTIC JOB AND HE'S GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL ON NOVEMBER 6th.

>> WHAT KIND OF CAMPAIGN DO YOU THINK THAT PETER SHUMLIN HAS RUN?

>> STRANGE ONE. STRANGE AT BEST. IT'S ALMOST LIKE HE'S ATTEMPTED TO SIT ON A LEAD. HE'S PROVIDED, REALLY, A LACK OF VISION, JOB CREATION HAS NOT BEEN VERY WELL ART LICK LATED ON HIS PART -- ARTICULATED ON HIS PART. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF STUFF THAT PEOPLE HAVE READ ABOUT GOVERNOR SHUMLIN THAT IS JUST REALLY STRANGE AND BIZARRE, AND I FRANKLY HAVE BEEN NOT IMPRESSED WITH -- GIVEN THE FACT THAT HE PERSONALLY HAS RAISED IN HIS CAMPAIGN LARGE SUMS AND NOT DONE AN AWFUL LOT OF HARD CAMPAIGNING. I THINK RANDY BROCK ON THE OTHER HAND HAS DEMONSTRATED AN ECONOMIC PLAN AND A VISION FOR THE FUTURE, AND IS VERY UPBEAT ABOUT WHERE THE STATE CAN GO, AND I THINK THAT GOVERNOR SHUMLIN HAS BEEN LACKING IN HIS DEMONSTRATION OF A VISION FOR VERMONT. I HAVEN'T HEARD HIM ARTICULATE, FRANKLY, WHAT HE WANTS TO DO IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS AND MAYBE HE'S GOING TO BUY SOME MORE LAND OR DO SOME MORE ACTIVITIES THAT WE DON'T ALL KNOW ABOUT OR UNDERSTAND, BUT I JUST DON'T --

>> DIFFERENT VIEWS OF HOW THE CANDIDATES ARE DOING --

>> I DON'T THINK HE'S RUN A PARTICULARLY GOOD CAMPAIGN.

>> YOU BOTH MENTIONED THROUGHOUT THIS INTERVIEW ABOUT THE TONE OF NATIONAL POLITICS AND THAT IT'S CREEPING INTO VERMONT, AND I KNOW A LOT OF VERMONT POLITICIANS WHO WOULD HAVE HAD OPPORTUNITIES TO GO TO D.C. DECIDED NOT TO BECAUSE THEY DON'T LIKE THE TONE. DO YOU THINK THAT THIS IS THE DIRECTION THAT VERMONT POLITICS ARE HEADING?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO NIP THAT IN THE BUD RIGHT HERE IN THIS ELECTION. AS I SAID, I BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF THE NEGATIVITY STEMS FROM THE OPERATIONS OF SUPER-PACs AND I THINK IT WOULD BE FANTASTIC IF WE COULD DEMONSTRATE AS VERMONTERS THAT WE'RE GOING TO VOTE FOR THE MOST QUALIFIED PERSON. WE'RE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY JUST BECAUSE HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ARE SPENT ON THAT CAMPAIGN. WE'RE GOING TO VOTE FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE THE MOST QUALIFIED PERSON TO DO THE JOB, LIKE IN THE CASE OF BETH PIERCE, AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- AS THE POLITICAL DISCOURSE BECOMES MORE NATIONALIZED, INEVITABLY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT AGAINST THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S INEVITABLE THAT IT HAPPENS IN VERMONT. I WOULD HOPE TO SEE, AND HOPEFULLY JACK AGREES WITH ME ON THIS, IS THAT THE NEGATIVITY OF ANY CAMPAIGN COME BACKS AND BITES THEM IN THE BACK. SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DEMONSTRATE HERE IN VERMONT THAT NEGATIVITY IS NOT THE WAY TO GO, THAT IN FACT FOCUSING ON THE POSITIVE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF YOUR CANDIDACY IS THE WAY TO CONVINCE VERMONTERS.

>> JUST ABOUT A MINUTE. I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON IT.

>> I HAPPEN TO THINK THAT THE NEGATIVITY IS GOING TO BE RESOLVED. UNFORTUNATELY, PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS NOT HAD A VERY GOOD TIME THE FIRST FOUR YEARS, BUT ROMNEY, WHO WORKED WITH THE DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS AND KNOWS HOW TO REACH ACROSS AND SOLVE PROBLEMS, WILL BE FANTASTIC PRESIDENT AND I THINK A LOT OF THE ACTIVITIES IN WASHINGTON WILL BE RESOLVED, AND THE VISION AND THE POLICIES OF ROMNEY WILL LEAD TO A BETTER AND MORE HOPEFUL FUTURE FOR VERMONT, AND I THINK WE'LL BE IN MUCH BETTER SHAPE. SO I DON'T AGREE THAT -- I THINK IT WILL BE NIPPED IN THE BUD, BUT IT WILL BE DONE AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL BY THE PRESIDENTIAL WINNER.

>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE. I WANT TO THANK YOU BOTH. JAKE PERKINSON, THE HEAD OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, JACK LINDLEY, THE HEAD OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. I UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE NEVER MET BEFORE, SO I'M GLAD WE CAN FACILITATE THAT. ONE THING I KNOW YOU BOTH WILL BE AGREE ON IS THAT PEOPLE SHOULD GET OUT AND VOTE. RIGHT, GENTLEMEN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> THANK YOU, KRISTIN.

>> THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU AT HOME FOR WATCHING. HAVE A GREAT SUNDAY, EVERYONE. TAKE CARE. CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY. CAPTION ASSOCIATES, LLC www.captionassociates.com