YCQM Aug. 4, 2019

BURLINGTON, Vt. REBECCA HOLCOMBE.
HOLD COME.
HOLCOMBE.
KERRIGAN DAVIS.
JEANNE SHAHEEN.
MAGGIE HASSAN.
A NAN THAT ALGER, SAMANTHA.
ALGER.
CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY:
CAPTION ASSOCIATES, LLC.
WWW.CAPTIONASSOCIATES.COM.
>> DARREN: GOOD MORNING, I'M DARREN PERRON.
RIGHT NOW ON "YOU CAN QUOTE ME," A ONE OF A KIND COLLECTION OF PROVERBS HOUSED RIGHT HERE IN THE GREEN MOUNTAINS.
WE TAKE A LOOK.
AND ONE ON ONE WITH VERMONT SENATOR PATRICK LAHEY.
THAT'S WHERE WE BEGIN THIS MORNING.
KYLE GOT AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH LAHEY TO DISCUSS A VARIETY OF ISSUES LAWMAKERS ARE GRAPPLING WITH ON CAPITOL HILL.
>> THANK YOU AS ALWAYS FOR MAKING TIME FOR US.
YOU'VE GOT A RESOLUTION DEALING WITH THE WOMEN'S NATIONAL SOCCER TEAM AND THE PAY DISPARITY THAT THEY'VE ALLEGED IN FEDERAL COURT.
WHAT'S THE THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND THIS?
>> I THINK WE CAN GET A RESOLUTION AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S ENOUGH PRESSURE BUILDING THAT THEY SHOULD BE PAID THE SAME.
I RECALL THE LEADER OF THE WOMEN'S TEAM SAYING WELL THERE ARE A COUPLE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN US AND THE MEN'S TEAM.
ONE, THEY GET PAID MORE, TWO WE'RE THE ONES WHO WIN.
>> REPORTER: DO YOU THINK THERE'S ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO CONCLUDE THEY ARE PAID LESS?
THE UNITED STATES SOCCER FEDERATION HAS SAID WE DISPUTE THAT THAT'S THE CASE.
>> OKAY.
IF THEY THINK THEY'RE NOT PAID LESS, THE MEN'S TEAM IS WILLING TO TRADE CHECKS WITH THEM, AND I THINK THE ANSWER WOULD BE THERE IMMEDIATELY.
MEN ARE PAID MORE.
LOOK WHAT THEY'VE ACCOMPLISHED.
MEN, THEY GET OTHER THINGS LIKEN DOORSMENTS AND WHAT NOT, THAT'S A MATTER OF NEGOTIATION.
>> REPORTER: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT TRANSPORTATION, A BILL MADE IT THROUGH THE COMMITTEE PROCESS, STILL HAS A COUPLE MORE STEPS TO GO, BUT IT DOESN'T SAY HOW THAT INVESTMENT WOULD BE PAID FOR AND THAT IS WHERE PRIOR DEALS HAVE FALLEN APART HERE IN RECENT YEARS.
DO YOU THINK THE SENATE CAN FIND A PATH THAT'S AGREEABLE TO THE HOUSE AND THE PRESIDENT?
>> YOU SPEAK ABOUT THE PRESIDENT, BECAUSE HE CHANGES HIS MIND SOMETIMES BY THE HOUR.
SOON AS THEY HAVE DIFFICULTY FINDING A TRILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF TAX BREAKS FOR THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS, THAT WASN'T PAID FOR, THAT WILL NEVER BE PAID FOR.
THE INFRASTRUCTURE DOLLARS WILL CREATE JOBS IN AMERICA.
ESPECIALLY JOBS THAT PAY WELL.
THEY WOULD GIVE US SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD HAVE AFTERWARDS, JUST LIKE WHEN I WAS A CHILD AND NAY WERE BUILDING THE INTERSTATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM.
LET'S DO THIS FOR AMERICA.
>> REPORTER: WE'VE HEARD TALK HERE ON CAPITOL HILL OF RAISING THE FEDERAL GAS TAX, PERHAPS THE VEHICLE MILES TRAVELED TAX, PERHAPS EVEN RELYING MORE ON TOLL ROADS THAN WE HAVE IN THE PAST.
ARE THOSE ALL VALID OPTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION IN YOUR OPINION?
>> A FEW CENTS ON A GALLON OF GAS, ANYBODY THAT'S BUYING GAS KNOWS IT GOES UP OR DOWN 10 OR 15 CENTS AT A TIME.
A FEW CENTS OF THAT GOING DIRECTLY TO BUILDING BETTER ROADS, I THINK PEOPLE COULD ACCEPT THAT.
I HAVE SEEN A NUMBER OF TOLL ROADS WHERE THEY PROMISE THIS WOULD REALLY ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING AND DID NOT.
SO I'D BE VERY CAREFUL ON THAT.
>> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE RECENT BUDGET DEAL THAT AVERTED ANOTHER DEBT CEILING CRISIS?
>> WELL, AS ONE OF THE HALF DOZEN WHO ACTUALLY NEGOTIATED IT, IT'S A GREAT DEAL.
BUT THERE'S A LOT OF GIVE AND TAKE.
MANY OF US HAVE HAD ENOUGH EXPERIENCE IN THIS PLACE TO KNOW, BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, HOW TO MAKE A BUDGET DEAL.
I THINK WE'VE DONE A GOOD ONE.
I THINK IT'S A LOT BETTER THAN WHERE WE WERE A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
AND I THINK WE CAN BUILD ON THAT.
NOW IT'S WHERE THE MONEY GOES, THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO COUNT.
I DO NOT WANT TO GIVE ANY ROOM FOR A PRESIDENT TO MOVE MONEY AROUND IN A WAY THAT HAS NOT BEEN AUTHORIZED.
WE'RE SUPPOSED TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.
IF THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T LIKE IT, HE CAN VETO THE BILL.
>> REPORTER: WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE BEST POSSIBLE SOLUTION TO THE CRISIS WE'RE SEEING ALONG OUR SOUTHERN BORDER WHEN IT COMES TO DETENTION FACILITIES?
>> I THINK WE NEED BETTER SCREENING, CERTAINLY WE NEED SOME WAY TO TAKE CARE OF CHILDREN.
YOU CAN'T HAVE CHILDREN, AND I'VE SEEN THEM, IN CAGES.
WE CAN HAVE A BETTER IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.
THE SENATE PASSED ONE WHEN I WAS CHAIRMAN, A VERY GOOD ONE, THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN SPEAKER WOULD NOT BRING IT UP FOR A VOTE.
NOW EVERYBODY WISHES HE HAD.
WE WILL ALWAYS BE A NATION OF IMMIGRANTS.
YES, WE WANT TO SECURE OUR BORDER AND KEEP OUT GANGS, DRUG DEALERS AND CRIMINALS.
BUT WE ALSO OUGHT TO LOOK AT THE FACT, DOES THIS COUNTRY REALLY WANT TO SEE A FATHER DROWNING WITH HIS CHILD?
DO WE WANT TO SEE CHILDREN DYING IN DETENTION CENTERS FROM THE FLU OR OTHER --
THAT'S NOT WHO WE ARE AS A COUNTRY.
>> REPORTER: YOU'VE ALSO BEEN RAISING FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW ISSUES ALONG NOT ONLY THE SOUTHERN BORDER BUT THE NORTHERN BORDER WHEN IT COMES TO CUSTOMS AND BORDER PATROL'S JURISDICTION.
THERE CAN BE CAR STOPS WITHIN 100 MILES OF THE BORDER, AND EVEN PRIVATE RESIDENCES CAN BE SEARCHED WITHIN 25 MILES OF THE BORDER.
GIVEN ALL THE DISCUSSION SURROUNDING OUR SOUTHERN BORDER, DO YOU REALLY THINK WE CAN MAKE HEAD WAY ON THIS ISSUE WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO RESTRICT THAT ZONE BY A FACTOR OF ABOUT A QUARTER?
>> YOU KNOW, BEING A SENATOR, 25 MILES FROM THE BORDER, AND SOMEBODY SAW ARMED PEOPLE PROWLING IN THEIR PROPERTY, GOING IN LOOKING IN THEIR PROPERTY WITHOUT A WARRANT, THEY'D SAY HEY, WAIT A MINUTE, THIS IS AMERICA, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
WELL, THIS IS AMERICA, YOU SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
I CAN'T BELIEVE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT'S BEEN WASTED IN GRAND ISLE COUNTY ON THE STOPS THEY'VE HAD ALONG BY THE BRIDGE, AND HUNDREDS, MAYBE EVEN THOUSANDS OF CARS STOPPED, ONLY FOUND ONE PERSON WITH A VISA OVERSTAY.
OH MY GRACIOUS.
INSTEAD OF HAVING DAY AFTER DAY OF STOPS FOR NOTHING, USE THESE PEOPLE TO MAKE THE BORDER WORK MORE EFFICIENTLY.
>> REPORTER: CUSTOMS AND BORDER PATROL ARGUES THAT THIS IS LEGAL BASED ON A SCORE CASE FROM THE 70'S.
DO YOU THINK THESE STOPS RUN AFOUL OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT?
>> THEY HAD THE SUPREME COURT CASE, WE COULD PASS A LAW THAT MADE IT VERY CLEAR, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE VERY STRICT LIMITS OF WHERE THEY CAN SEARCH.
IF YOU'VE GOT A REAL PROBLEM, GO TO A JUDGE, GET A WARRANT.
>> REPORTER: PART OF THE MUELLER REPORT DEALT WITH POSSIBLE COLLUSION HAS BEEN THE TERM, BUT REALLY CONSPIRACY WITH RUSSIA.
BUT THE OTHER PART OF THE REPORT ALSO DEALT WITH ELECTION MEDDLING IN OUR ELECTIONS, ELECTION SECURITY.
DO YOU BELIEVE THE DEMOCRATS HERE IN CONGRESS HAVE SPENT TOO MUCH TIME FOCUSING ON THE PRESIDENT AND TIES HIS CAMPAIGN MAY HAVE HAD TO RUSSIA AND THUS THAT HAS HURT THE POLITICAL CHANCES TO WORK ON ELECTION SECURITY BIT?
WHICH FRANKLY THERE SEEMS TO BE BROAD BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR DEALING WITH.
>> NO, THERE IS NOT BROAD BIPARTISAN SUPPORT, THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
YOU WOULD THINK THAT AFTER ALL THAT'S COME OUT WE COULD EASILY PASS A BILL, WE HAVE A BIPARTISAN BILL THAT WOULD INCREASE SECURITY.
WHY HASN'T IT COME UP?
BECAUSE THE REPUBLICAN LEADER IN THE SENATE SAYS IT WON'T COME UP.
HE'S BLOCKED IT FROM COMING UP.
WHO BENEFITS FROM THAT?
MOSCOW BENEFITS FROM THAT.
NOT AMERICA.
I RECEIVED LETTERS FROM ATTORNEYS GENERAL, REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT, AROUND THE COUNTRY SAYING WE NEED BETTER SECURITY.
THIS IS SOMETHING REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS AGREE ON.
THE REPUBLICAN LEADER SHOULD NOT BLOCK IT.
IT'S OBVIOUSLY THE MUELLER REPORT THAT THE MEDDLING BY RUSSIA HELPED REPUBLICANS LAST TIME.
BUT WE SHOULD BE AGAINST IT NO MATTER WHO IT HELPS.
I CAN ASSURE YOU IF WE HAD A VOTE ON IT, A MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE WOULD VOTE FOR IT.
>> REPORTER: FINALLY, I WANT TO CLOSE OUR INTERVIEW WITH A BIT OF A LANDMARK FOR YOU, SIR.
16,000 VOTES IN THE U.S. SENATE.
BEHIND ONLY THREE PEOPLE, TWO OF WHOM YOU'RE NIPPING AT THEIR TAILS.
I DID A LITTLE ROUGH MATH AND LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD THE BE ABOUT SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS, THOUGH, BEFORE YOU COULD CATCH SENATOR BYRD OF WEST VIRGINIA WHO HAD 18,689 TOTAL VOTES.
YOU PLAN ON STICKING AROUND TO BREAK THE RECORD?
>> HE USED TO GO AROUND AND SAY, OH, THAT'S NUMBER 14,3 THE 9.
I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS COMING UP ON 16,000 UNTIL MY STAFF CAME IN AND SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO CAST YOUR 16,000TH VOTE AND I LOOKED AND SAID OUT OF ALMOST 2,000 SENATORS, ONLY THREE OTHERS HAVE CAST THAT MANY.
I CAST THE VOTE AND IT TURNED OUT THE BE MORE EMOTIONAL THAN I THOUGHT.
SENATOR AFTER SENATOR CAME OVER AND HUGGED ME AND SHOOK HANDS, BOTH PARTIES.
IT WAS A GOOD FEELING.
IT FELT LIKE THE SENATE WAS LIKE WHEN I FIRST CAME HERE WHEN I CAST 16 VOTES, NOT 16,000.
>> REPORTER: IS THERE ONE VOTE OUT OF THOSE 16,000 AND CHANGE NOW THAT STANDS OUT?
>> ONE WAS IN COMMITTEE, WHEN I WAS THE DECIDING VOTE TO CUT OFF THE WAR IN VIETNAM.
EVERY SINGLE REPRESENTATIVE AND SENATOR FROM VERMONT HAD ALWAYS VOTED TO SUPPORT THE WAR IN VIETNAM.
I WAS THE NEWEST MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE.
I WAS THAT ONE VOTE.
AND MAYBE IT'S A WAR AND PEACE ISSUE, BECAUSE I HAD DISCOVERED THAT THE INFORMATION THAT DICK CHENEY AND OTHERS WERE GIVING US ON THE IRAQ WAR WAS NOT TRUE.
I VOTED AGAINST THAT WAR.
I WAS ON THE LOSING SIDE.
BUT I'M PROUD OF THAT VOTE.
IT TURNED OUT OF COURSE AFTERWARD THERE WERE NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.
THERE WAS NO THREAT.
AND A TRILLION DOLLARS LATER, AND SO MANY THOUSANDS OF LIVES LOST, WE NOW REALIZE WHAT AN AWFUL MISTAKE.
>> REPORTER: IS THERE ONE YOU REGRET?
>> OH, I'M SURE, YOU KNOW, IN 16,000, SURE.
I'LL TELL YOU ONE I REGRET.
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, HE WAS NOMINATED TO BE HEAD OF THE C.I.A.
I STATED THAT I WOULD NOT VOTE FOR EITHER A REPUBLICAN OR A DEMOCRAT, GOING FROM THE HEAD OF THE NATIONAL PARTY COMMITTEE TO THE HEAD OF THE C.I.A. BECAUSE THAT HAD TO BE A PROFESSIONAL NONPOLITICAL POSITION.
HE DID AN EXCELLENT JOB, AND I REMEMBER SITTING AT THE WHITE HOUSE ONE DAY JUST THE TWO OF US HAVING A COCKTAIL AND I TOLD HIM, I SAID I MADE A MISTAKE ON THAT.
AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, I MIGHT HAVE VOTED THE SAME WAY HAD I BEEN YOU.
AND THAT WAS ONE VOTE I REGRETTED.
>> REPORTER: SENATOR, AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
>> THANK YOU.
>> DARREN: UP NEXT, GOOD THINGS COME TO THOSE WHO WAIT.
>> WE'VE ALL HER NOT TO JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER, BUT HOW ABOUT 9,000 OF THEM.
I'M CAT VIGLIENZONI AT THE UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT WHICH HAS ONE OF THE LARGEST COLLECTIONS.
COMING UP MEET THE MAN RESPONSIBLE FOR COLLECTING ALL OF THESE.
>> A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES BEGINS WITH A SINGLE STEP.
THAT IS A PROVERB.
AND FOR A UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT PROFESSOR, DECADES OF STEPS HAVE LED TO A COLLECTION OF WORK UNLIKE ANY OTHER IN THE WORLD.
CAT VIGLIENZONI WENT TO CAMPUS TO MEET A PROVERB SCHOLAR WHO PROVES THE HARDER YOU WORK, THE LUCKIER YOU'LL GET.
>> THIS IS KIND OF MY LITTLE SHELF.
>> REPORTER: IF THERE'S ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THE FEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD, IT'S WOLFGANG METER.
>> THESE TWO VOLUMES, IF YOU WERE TO OPEN IT, HAS OVER 10,000 PUBLICATIONS LISTED WITH AN NOTATIONS.
>> REPORTER: THE U.V.M. GERMAN AND FOLKLORE PROFESSOR WON'T BLOW HIS OWN HORN, BUT HE IS ONE OF THE WORLD'S LEADING PROVERB SCHOLARS.
>> PROVERBS COMMUNICATE BY INDIRECTION.
WE CAN SAY THINGS WITHOUT OFFENDING SOMETHING BECAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS SAY IT'S JUST A PROVERB.
>> REPORTER: HE LOVES HOW THEY SPAN CULTURES AND CONDENSE GENERAL OBSERVATIONS INTO PITTY SAYINGS.
>> THE AVERAGE LENGTH OF A PROVERB IS ABOUT SEVEN WORDS.
>> REPORTER: BUT SHORT SAYINGS CAN STILL LEAD TO LONG DISSERTATIONS, LIKE THE ONE THAT GOT HIM HOOKED IN COLLEGE. AND JUST AS ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY, NEITHER WAS HIS 9,000 BOOK COLLECTION, GATHERED OVER 50 YEARS.
>> YOU KNOW, YOU COULD, I SUPPOSE, CALL IT SOMEWHAT OF AN OBSESSION, BUT I ALWAYS SAY I DO PARTY TOO.
>> REPORTER: AT SOME POINT IN HIS COLLECTING, THE 75-YEAR-OLD REALIZED HE MAY HAVE BITTEN OFF MORE THAN HE CAN CHEW.
>> ABOUT 80 NEW COLLECTIONS EVERY YEAR, BETWEEN 80 AND 100.
>> REPORTER: BUT NECESSITY IS THE MOTHER OF INVENTION AND WHERE THERE'S A WILL THERE'S A WAY.
THE UNIVERSITY'S NEWLY RENOVATED LIBRARY WING NEEDED SOMETHING TO FILL IT'S SHELVES AND HE NEEDED SPACE.
DONATING HIS BOOKS THIS PAST SPRING KILLED TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE.
>> TO BE ABLE TO KEEP ALL OF THESE BOOKS TOGETHER, THAT IS WHAT I'M SO INCREDIBLY THANKFUL ABOUT.
>> REPORTER: APPEARANCES CAN BE DECEIVING.
IF YOU JUDGE THESE BOOKS BY THEIR COVERS HE SAYS YOU MIGHT MISS THE WIT AND WISDOM AND HISTORY INSIDE.
>> THIS WOULD BE THE OLDEST BOOK IN THE COLLECTION.
>> REPORTER: SOME OF REALLY RARE, LIKE THIS GERMAN PROVERB COLLECTION FROM 1545.
>> THOSE ARE SOME OF MY TREASURES RIGHT THERE.
>> REPORTER: IT'S KEPT LOCKED UP, SO WELL EVEN HE HAS TROUBLE GETTING TO IT.
BUT THERE'S A SAYING FOR THAT, TOO.
>> PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT WOULD BE A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR THIS.
SO YOU CAN SEE, YOU CAN ALSO HAVE FUN WITH PROVERBS.
>> REPORTER: AS FOR HIS FAVORITE ONE?
>> DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS.
>> REPORTER: IT COMES WITH A CAVEAT FOR YOUNG PROVERB SCHOLARS.
>> I COVER THAT IN MY CLASS, I ALWAYS TELL THE STUDENTS, NOW REMEMBER, DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS DOES NOT GIVE YOU CART BLANCH TO DO WHATEVER YOU DAMN WELL WANT TO DO.
>> DARREN: STILL AHEAD, WHAT IS AN ANTI-PROVERB?
AND WHICH ONES IS HE TIRED OF HEARING?
WE'RE CONTINUING OUR CONVERSATION WITH THOSE ANSWERS RIGHT AFTER THE BREAK.
>> DARREN: WELCOME BACK.
WE ARE CONTINUING OUR CONVERSATION ABOUT PROVERBS THIS MORNING WITH WORLD RENOWNED U.V.M. PROVERB SCHOLAR, WOLFGANG METER.
HERE'S CAT VIGLIENZONI.
>> REPORTER: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TELL PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE A PROVERB SCHOLAR, WHAT'S THEIR REACTION?
>> I OFTENTIMES KIND OF HAVE FUN WITH THIS.
I RESPOND MAYBE BY SAYING, DON'T YOU THINK IT'S A BIT STRANGE THAT A PERSON WITH AN AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE CAN SPEND 50 YEARS STUDYING PROVERBS?
AND SOMETIMES I WONDER ABOUT THAT MYSELF.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT HAS BEEN SO MUCH FUN ABOUT STUDYING PROVERBS TO ME PERSONALLY IS THAT HERE I AM, A PROFESSOR OF GERMAN LANGUAGE, CULTURE AND LITERATURE, RIGHT, I ADDED TO THAT THE STUDY OF FOLKLORE.
SO THAT BROADENED MY WHOLE WAY OF LOOKING AT THE WORLD AND AT MY SCHOLARSHIP.
WHAT PROVERBS ENABLE ME TO DO IS TO LITERALLY PICK A GIANT AMOUNT OF TOPICS THAT I CAN WORK ON, THAT'S WHAT HAS FASCINATED ME IS TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD SAY AND HOW THEY HAVE CRYSTALLIZED THEIR GENERAL OBSERVATIONS INTO PITHY SAYINGS, SO TO SPEAK.
>> REPORTER: I WAS GOING TO SAY, WHAT ABOUT PROVERBS MAKES THEM SO UBIQUITOUS ACROSS ALL CULTURES?
>> I THINK IT'S IN A ROUND ABOUT WAY THE BASIC TRUTH THAT THEY EXPRESS, SOMETHING THAT YOU AND I CAN RELATE TO.
IF YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE THE EARLY BIRD CATCH TESS WORM, IT'S A METAPHOR, BUT YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT IT MEANS, YOU CAN APPLY IT TO ALL KINDS OF SITUATIONS.
AND PROVERBS GIVE YOU THE GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO SAY SOMETHING VERY CONCISELY, SHORTLY, WITH A NICE IMAGE, USUALLY, AND YOU CAN GET THE PROVERBIAL NAIL ON THE HEAD SO TO SPEAK IN A DISCUSSION OR IN A SPEECH OR IN A NOVEL, IN A POEM FOR THAT MATTER, OR IN A RAP SONG.
PROVERBS AS YOU USED THE WORD UBIQUITOUS, PROVERBS ARE USUALLY EVERYWHERE.
>> REPORTER: IS THERE ONE YOU'RE JUST TIRED OF HEARING?
>> THE PROVERBS THAT GET TEDIOUS ARE THOSE THAT DON'T HAVE A METAPHOR.
LET'S JUST SAY HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY, NOT THAT I DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT, BUT THE POINT IS THAT HAS NO PARTICULAR EMOTION BEHIND IT, IT'S JUST A STATEMENT OF FACT.
OR ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
THAT IS A PROVERB THAT SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS USES A LOT.
IT'S OKAY, BUT IF YOU OVERUSE IT, IT BECOMES KIND OF ALMOST LIKE A CLICHE, YOU KNOW.
SO I THINK USING MORE METAPHOR CAL PROVERBS WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IN ANY KIND OF DISCUSSION, WHETHER IT BE IN WRITING, LET'S SAY AS A HEADLINE IN A NEWSPAPER OR MAGAZINE, OR UNDERNEATH A CARTOON.
PROVERBS AND CARTOONS WORK TOGETHER VERY WELL BECAUSE THE CARTOONIST CAN PICTURE THE PROVERB, YOU KNOW, AND THE INTERPLAY BETWEEN THE CARTOON AND THE CAPTION THAT VARIES THE PROVERBS A LITTLE BIT, MAKES IT HUMOROUS AT TIMES, OR IT COULD BE A SATIRICAL CARTOON OF COURSE.
>> REPORTER: I WAS GOING TO SAY, I LOVE WHEN SOMEBODY TAKES A PROVERB LITERALLY AND THEN YOU GO, WAIT A MINUTE, THIS IS KIND OF A FUNNY THING.
>> OH, YES.
THERE IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE WORKED ON A LOT IS WHAT I CALL ANTI-PROVERBS, YOU CAN ALWAYS TAKE A PROVERB AND VARY IT, AND THEN YOU AND I KNOW THE ORIGINAL PROVERB BUT THE JUXTAPOSITION OF THE VARIED FORM MAKES IT SO MUCH FUN.
I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
EVERYBODY KNOWS THE PROVERB, NOBODY IS PERFECT.
NOW, IF YOU JUST WERE TO SPLIT THE VERB NOBODY, THEN WE'VE GOT NO BODY IS PERFECT.
SO JUST BY SEPARATING THAT WORD INTO TWO WORDS YOU ADD A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MEANING.
IF YOU ASK YOURSELF WHERE DO NEW PROVERBS COME FROM, WELL, SOME OF THEM COME FROM PLAYS WITH PROVERBS, OTHERS ARE SIMPLY CREATED NEW.
FOR A LONG TIME PEOPLE ALWAYS THOUGHT PROVERBS HAVE TO BE --
I SHOULD SAY PROVERBS REALLY COME AND GO.
PROVERBS THAT WERE USED IN THE MIDDLE AGES OR THE 16TH CENTURY, WELL, THERE ARE SOME PROVERBS YOU AND I OUGHT TO MAYBE SAY LET'S NOT USE IT ANY LONGER.
IT IS AMAZING HOW MANY MODERN AMERICAN PROVERBS ARE BECOMING CURRENT.
THINGS LIKE ALL OF US KNOW, GASH KNOWLEDGE IN, GARBAGE OUT, YOU KNOW THAT COULDN'T BE OLDER THAN 1975.
OR IF SOMEONE GIVES YOU LEMMONS, MAKE LEMONADE, YOU CAN SENSE THAT THAT IS NOT A MEDIEVAL PROVERB. SO THERE ARE CONSTANTLY NEW PROVERBS CREATED, SOME DROP OUT.
BUT YOU ALSO HAVE PROVERBS THAT I THINK WILL NEVER DIE.
FOR EXAMPLE, TAKE A CLASSICAL PROVERB, LATIN, TIME FLIES.
MONEY TALKS.
SO THERE ARE TWO-WORD PROVERBS AND MOST OF THEM ARE LONGER.
>> REPORTER: IS THERE SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL IN THE BREVITY OF A PROVERB?
>> YES, I THINK SO.
PEOPLE ESPECIALLY I THINK IN MODERN CULTURE, NOWADAYS I SUPPOSE YOU COULD SAY PROVERBS ARE LIKE SOUND BITES.
ADVERTISING, OF COURSE, IS A TREMENDOUS FIELD FOR PROVERBS.
SO WHAT ADVERTISING DOES IS THEY TAKE A BIBLICAL PROVERB OFTEN, BECAUSE BIBLICAL PROVERBS HAVE A LOT OF AUTHORITY BEHIND THEM, AND THEY CHANGE IT A LITTLE BIT OR ADD THE PRODUCT NAME TO IT AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT YOU SAY YES, I THINK I'M GOING TO BUY THAT.
>> REPORTER: WHAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF THAT?
>> I THINK ONE OF THE POPULAR ONES IS MATTHEW 4, OR DEUTERONOMY, MAN DOES NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE.
JUST IMAGINE WHAT AN ADVERTISING AGENCY CAN DO WITH THAT.
FIRST YOU CAN SAY PEOPLE INSTEAD OF MAN.
THEN YOU CAN SEE PEOPLE CAN'T LIVE BY, WHAT, WHATEVER COMES TO YOUR MIND, CRACKERS, YOU KNOW, THEN YOU PUT YOUR PRODUCT NAME IN IT AND YOU HAVE A WONDERFUL SLOGAN.
BUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PROVERB AND A SLOGAN IS THAT A SLOGAN DEALS WITH SOMETHING SPECIFIC, HAS A PURPOSE.
A PROVERB HAS TO BE MULTIFUNCTIONAL, MULTISEMANTIC REALLY AND HAS TO BE ABLE TO BE USED IN VARIOUS SITUATIONS.
THAT'S WHAT A PROVERB HAS TO BE ABLE TO DO.
IT ISN'T JUST ONE TIME.
SO YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO APPLY A PROVERB LIKE BIG FISH EAT LITTLE FISH.
YOU CAN APPLY IT TO, LET'S SAY, A BIG COMPANY SWALLOWING UP A SMALLER ONE.
>> REPORTER: WHAT DO YOU HOPE THAT THEY GET FROM A BOOK OF PROVERBS?
>> I THINK WHAT THE STUDENTS LEARN IS THAT THEY ACTUALLY PLAY AN IMPORTANT COMMUNEICATIVE FUNCTION.
THEY CAN BE FUNNY, THEY CAN BE SERIOUS, THEY CAN BE HELPFUL AS A PIECE OF ADVICE, BUT THEY CAN ALSO BE TERRIBLY MANIPULATIVE.
BECAUSE YOU CAN ALSO USE PROVERBS TO LET'S JUST SAY, UNFORTUNATELY THIS WAS THE CASE, I HAVE ANTI-SEMITIC PROVERB COLLECTIONS, WHERE DURING NAZI GERMANY SOMEONE PUBLISHED A 210-PAGE PROVERB COLLECTION OF ALL THE ANTI-SEMITISM PROVERBS HE COULD FIND IN ALL LANGUAGES.
AND THEN PROVERBS CAN BE REFUSED.
>> REPORTER: WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT PROVERBS AND HOW THEY CHANGE OVER THE YEARS, DO YOU EVER FIND THAT SOME OF THEM LOSE THEIR MEANING ENTIRELY?
>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.
IT'S ALMOST KIND OF A POPULAR THING EVEN IN THE POPULAR PRESS, WHERE PEOPLE WILL SAY, OH, I ALWAYS ENJOY THOSE ARTICLES, OFTENTIMES IT'S JUST A PAGE, BASICALLY DEBUNKING THE WISDOM OF A PROVERB.
AN AL APPLE A DAY KEEPS THE DOCTOR AWAY.
NOW, YOU KNOW DARN WELL JUST BECAUSE I EAT AN APPLE A DAY DOESN'T MEAN I NEVER HAVE TO GO TO A PHYSICIAN.
SO IT IS EASY TO SAY THIS PROVERB JUST ISN'T TRUE ANY MORE.
WHAT PEOPLE FORGET, AND I ENJOY THOSE ARTICLES, BUT THEY FORGET THAT WE ALWAYS, WHEN WE USE A PROVERB OR WHEN WE TRY TO UNDERSTAND A PROVERB THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE, WE HAVE TO PUT IT IN A SPLIT SECOND INTO OUR BRAIN IN AN INSTANT WHERE IT FITS.
SO YOU CAN TAKE ALMOST ANY PROVERB AND SAY IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT SIMPLY ISN'T TRUE.
FINE.
SO WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS PROVERBS ARE NOT UNIVERSAL TRUTHS.
PROVERBS ARE NOT A PHILOSOPHICAL SYSTEM.
THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE CONTRADICTORY PROVERBS.
ABSENCE MAKES THE MART GROW FONDER, OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND.
>> DARREN: WE ASKED HIS OTHER FAVORITE PROVERBS, MAKING A WAY OUT OF NO WAY.
HE SAYS HE LEARNED THAT WAY FROM MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. BECAUSE HE USED IT A LOT.
AND HE'S A BIG FAN OF THE GOLDEN RULE, DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.
GOOD MESSAGES THERE.
AND THAT WILL DO IT FOR CHANNEL 3'S "YOU CAN QUOTE ME."
WE'VE GOT MORE NEWS STRAIGHT AHEAD.
STAY WITH US, AND HAVE A GREAT DAY, EVERYBODY.