YCQM: July 28, 2019

BURLINGTON, Vt. >> Darren: GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. I'M DARREN PERRON.
RIGHT NOW ON CHANNEL 3'S "YOU
CAN QUOTE ME," ROBERT MUELLER TESTIFIES.
THE FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL
APPEARS BEFORE CONGRESS.
WE HAVE EXPERT ANALYSIS OF WHAT
HE SAID AND WHAT DEMOCRATS AND
REPUBLICANS DO WITH IT NOW.
>>> ALSO, SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY
DEMANDING INVESTIGATIVE
MATERIALS ON HUSH MONEY
ALLEGEDLY PAID TO WOMEN BY
MICHAEL COHEN ON BEHALF OF
PRESIDENT TRUMP.
>>> PLUS, GOT MILK?
NOPE.
BEN & JERRY'S LAUNCHES A VEGAN
LINE.
>>> AND THE EQUIFAX BREACH.
HOW TO CLAIM YOUR SHARE OF THE
NEARLY $700 MILLION SETTLEMENT
AND THAT'S WHERE WE BEGIN THIS
MORNING.
VERMONT ATTORNEY GENERAL T.J.
DONOVAN ANNOUNCED A SETTLEMENT
FOR A SECURITY BREACH BY THE
CONSUMER CREDIT REPORTING
AGENCY.
IT'S A NATIONAL SETTLEMENT,
AMOUNTING TO ABOUT $700 MILLION.
VERMONT'S SHARE IS 1.8 MILLION,
WHICH WILL GO INTO THE STATE'S
GENERAL FUND, BUT THE MAJORITY
OF THAT BIG SETTLEMENT IS FOR
RESTITUTION, RESERVED FOR PEOPLE
IMPACTED BY THE BREACH.
IF YOU SPENT ANY TIME DEALING
WITH IT, YOU'RE ELIGIBLE FOR $25
PER HOUR FOR UP TO 20 HOURS.
IT ALSO COVERS OUT-OF-POCKET
EXPENSES IF YOU CAN PROVE IT.
AND TO TALK MORE ABOUT IT, THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL JOINS ME NOW.
GOOD MORNING TO YOU.
>> Donovan: GOOD MORNING,
DARREN, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> Darren: THANKS FOR BEING
HERE.
IT AFFECTED NEARLY 150 MILLION
AMERICANS, THIS BREACH.
DO WE KNOW HOW MANY VERMONTERS
WERE AFFECTED?
>> Donovan: YES, 251,000
VERMONTERS WERE AFFECTED BY THE
EQUIFAX BREACH AND IT
UNDERSCORES THAT WE LIVE IN AN
ONLINE, DIGITAL GLOBAL ECONOMY
WHERE MORE AND MORE FINANCIAL
TRANSACTIONS ARE BEING DONE
ONLINE AND THAT PUTS PEOPLE AT
RISK, SO DIGITAL SECURITY IS
INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.
251,000 VERMONTERS WERE
AFFECTED.
>> Darren: THE CONSUMER
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM TAKING
HUNDREDS OF PHONE CALLS WHEN
THIS FIRST CAME OUT IN THAT
FIRST WEEKEND.
WHAT WERE VERMONTERS SAYING?
>> Donovan: I REALLY WANT TO
GIVE CREDIT TO MY TEAM AT THE
CONSUMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM,
WHICH IS A PARTNERSHIP WITH THE
UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT AND IT'S
STAFFED WITH UVM STUDENTS AS
WELL AS ATTORNEY GENERAL
EMPLOYEES, AND I LIKE TO SAY,
DARREN, THAT IT'S REALLY THE
ONLY PLACE IN STATE GOVERNMENT
WHEN YOU CALL GOVERNMENT, YOU
GET A LIVE PERSON.
PEOPLE WERE SCARED BECAUSE THIS
IS ABOUT PEOPLE'S MONEY.
THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE'S
LIVELIHOODS, THEIR RETIREMENT,
AND SO THAT ANXIETY AND ANGST
AND WORRY AND THE UNCERTAINTY
THAT PEOPLE HAVE STOLEN YOUR
INFORMATION REALLY IS A
DEBILITATING THING, SO A LOT OF
IT WAS TELLING PEOPLE WE WERE ON
IT, WE WERE GOING TO MAKE SURE
THAT THEIR FINANCIAL ASSETS WERE
PROTECTED, AND I'M PROUD OF THE
WORK WE DID.
SO YOU SAID IN YOUR OUTSET,
CERTAINLY THIS IS A BIG DEAL.
THIS WAS A NATIONAL SETTLEMENT F
1.8 GOES TO THE STATE'S GENERAL
FUN, BUT REALLY IT'S -- FUND,
BUT REALLY IT'S THAT ISSUE OF
RESTITUTION WHICH I REALLY
ENCOURAGE VERMONTERS BECAUSE A
LOT OF FOLKS WERE ON THE PHONE
SPENDING TIME, AND AGAIN YOU'RE
ELIGIBLE FOR UP TO 20 HOURS, 25
BUCKS OF THOSE HOURS, I THINK
YOU CAN SELF-CERTIFY UP TO TEN
OF THOSE HOURS AND I REALLY
ENCOURAGE VERMONTERS WHO SPENT
ANY TIME TO BE PAID.
THIS IS A BREACH THAT SHOULD NOT
HAVE HAPPENED.
>> Darren: WHAT ABOUT
REIMBURSING YOUR PEOPLE FOR ALL
THOSE HOURS, TAKING THOSE PHONE
CALLS?
>> Donovan: WE'RE NOT GOING TO
BE REIMBURSED, NOR SHOULD WE.
THAT'S THE JOB WE DO.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE
HERE TO PROTECT VERMONTERS, AND
IT'S REALLY AN HONOR TO DO THAT.
WHEN YOU COME INTO A CRISIS,
WHICH IT IS A CRISIS, WHEN
YOU'RE SITTING AT HOME AT THE
KITCHEN TABLE AND YOU'RE TRYING
TO MAKE ENDS MEET, PAY YOUR
MORTGAGE, PAY YOUR BILLS, PAY
YOUR TAXES, PUT A LITTLE BIT
AWAY TO SAVE FOR YOUR KID'S
COLLEGE TUITION, TO BE TOLD THAT
YOUR FINANCIAL LIVELIHOOD IS AT
RISK BECAUSE SOMEBODY STOLE YOUR
DATA, THAT'S A CRISIS FOR
VERMONTERS, SO THAT'S OUR JOB
AND WE'RE PROUD TO DO IT.
>> Darren: LET'S DIVE A LITTLE
BIT DEEPER INTO THAT.
WHAT SPECIFICALLY DID THIS
BREACH DO, WHY SUCH A BIG DEAL?
>> Donovan: BECAUSE IT PUTS
PEOPLE AT RISK OF IDENTITY
THEFT, THAT YOU CAN IMPERSONATE
SOMEBODY WHO YOU HAVE THEIR
NAME, THEIR DEATH OF BIRTH,
THEIR ADDRESS, THEIR SOCIAL
SECURITY NUMBER.
ALL THIS PERSONAL INFORMATION
THAT WE HAVE THAT'S OUT THERE,
THAT FRANKLY IS BEING SOLD BY A
LOT OF COMPANIES, BEING BOUGHT
AND SOLD BY A LOT OF COMPANIES,
AS A RESULT OF THIS, VERMONT,
THROUGH THE LEADERSHIP OF MY
OFFICE, WE WERE THE FIRST STATE
TO PASS A DATA BROKER LAW THAT
IF YOU BUY AND SELL PEOPLE'S
DATA, WHICH IS A NEW COMMODITY,
RIGHT?
THAT'S HOW YOU MONETIZE THINGS
ONLINE IS PEOPLE'S DATA.
THAT IF YOU'RE A THIRD-PARTY
BROKER, YOU DON'T HAVE A DIRECT
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CONSUMER,
YOU HAVE TO REGISTER WITH THE
SECRETARY OF STATE BECAUSE
VERMONTERS HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW
WHO'S BUYING AND SELLING THEIR
DATA, WHERE IT'S GOING.
>> Darren: HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?
>> Donovan: GREAT QUESTION.
I THINK THE FACT THAT EQUIFAX
DID NOT IN HINDSIGHT AND NOT
EVEN IN HINDSIGHT, HAVE ADEQUATE
SECURITY MEASURES.
AS I SAID, WE'RE IN AN ONLINE
DIGITAL WORLD IN A GLOBAL
ECONOMY.
THESE AREN'T VERMONTERS RIPPING
PEOPLE OFF.
THIS IS AN INTERNATIONAL ISSUE,
HARD TO ENFORCE IN VERMONT, SO
WE GOT TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN
TO REALLY HOLD COMPANIES
ACCOUNTABLE THAT HAVE CONSUMERS'
PERSONAL INFORMATION, THAT THEY
HAVE ADEQUATE SECURITY MEASURES
BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN
TIME AND TIME AGAIN AND THE
MESSAGE WE'RE SENDING TO BIG
BUSINESS, TO BIG CORPORATIONS,
TAKE CARE OF THE CONSUMERS'
INFORMATION OR YOU'RE GOING TO
BE OUT OF BUSINESS.
>> Darren: IN ADDITION TO THE
SETTLEMENT MONEY, EQUIFAX WILL
PROVIDE AT LEAST TEN YEARS OF
CREDIT MONITORING AND AT LEAST
SEVEN YEARS OF FREE SERVICES FOR
RESTORING STOLEN IDENTITIES.
FOR DETAILS ON FILING A CLAIM,
THE COMPANY SET UP THE WEBSITE,
YOU SEE IT RIGHT THERE,
EQUIFAXBREACHSETTLEMENT.COM AND
WE HAVE A LINK ON OUR WEBSITE,
WCAX.COM.
SINCE THE BREACH, EQUIFAX HAS
FORCED OUT ITS TOP EXECUTIVES
AND INVESTED IN NEW TECHNOLOGY.
YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE LACK
OF THERE, BUT IT TOOK SIX WEEKS
FOR THE COMPANY TO FIGURE OUT HE
GOT A PROBLEM HERE.
WHAT TOOK SO LONG?
>> Donovan: IT'S UNCLEAR AND
WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT WE'RE
DOING IN VERMONT, VERMONT
PROBABLY HAS ONE OF THE
STRONGEST DATA BREACH
NOTIFICATION LAWS THAT YOU HAVE
TO NOTIFY STATES SO WE CAN
NOTIFY CONSUMERS IN A TIMELY
MANNER.
YOU KNOW, TAKE THE LAW OUT OF
IT, TAKE THE COMPANIES OUT OF
IT, PUT YOURSELF IN THE POSITION
OF A VERMONTER.
THEY SHOULD KNOW AS SOON AS
POSSIBLE THAT THEIR INFORMATION
IS AT RISK BECAUSE THEY'RE
TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE'S MONEY.
IF ALL WE DO IN THE STATE IS
TALK ABOUT AFFORDABILITY, WELL,
PEOPLE ARE GETTING RIPPED OFF, I
THINK IT'S INCUMBENT ON
GOVERNMENT AND BUSINESS TO TELL
PEOPLE WHEN THEY'RE AT RISK.
SO THE RISK IS, OF COURSE, AS I
SAID, HIGH RATES OF IDENTITY
THEFT WHERE PEOPLE ARE GETTING
RIPPED OFF AND SCAMS, AND YOU
AND I TALK SO MUCH ABOUT
ROBO-CALLS AND PHISHING ATTEMPTS
ONLINE.
THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL, AND THIS
IS A WAKE-UP CALL, I HOPE, FOR
INDUSTRY THAT THEY HAVE TO DO A
BETTER JOB OF PROTECTING
PEOPLE'S DATA.
>> Darren: I WANT TO SHIFT GEARS
NOW TO A SUIT AGAINST 5 HOUR
ENERGY.
AFTER FIVE YEARS OF LITIGATION,
A STALEMATE IN THAT LAWSUIT.
THEY WERE SUED SAYING CLAIMS
ABOUT POTENCY WERE MISLEADING.
THE CASE WAS SET TO GO TO TRIAL,
BUT THE TWO SIDES AGREED TO
SETTLE THE CASE.
THE MAKERS OF 5 HOUR ENERGY WILL
PAY THE STATE $800,000 TO COVER
LEGAL EXPENSES, BUT THE COMPANY
DOES NOT ADMIT WRONGDOING.
WHAT HAPPENED ABOUT THE SUIT?
>> Donovan: AS YOU SAID, THAT
WAS A LAWSUIT GOING FOR FIVE
YEARS AND THE INVESTIGATION
GOING ON FOR SEVEN YEARS, AND AT
THE END OF THE DAY, AS YOU SAID
EXACTLY, IT WAS A STALEMATE, A
DRAW.
WE AGREED TO DISMISS THE CASE,
THEY AGREED TO COVER OUR COSTS.
THERE'S NO LOSS TO THE VERMONT
TAXPAYER.
THE AD IN QUESTION WAS TAKEN
DOWN AND FOR ME, THIS IS ABOUT
PRIORITIES AND WHEN I GO AROUND
THIS STATE, I HEAR PEOPLE
TALKING ABOUT CLEAN WATER, I
HEAR PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT
OPIATES, I HEAR PEOPLE TALKING
ABOUT THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS.
NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT AN
ENERGY DRINK.
SO WHEN MY JOB IS TO MEASURE THE
HARM TO VERMONTERS VERSUS THE
RISK TO VERMONTERS AND ANYTIME
YOU'RE ABOUT TO GO TO TRIAL, THE
RISK IS IF YOU LOOSE, YOU'RE
GOING TO BE -- YOU LOSE, YOU'RE
GOING TO BE PAYING AND PAYING
WITH TAXPAYER DOLLARS.
I'M NOT WILLING TO RISK TAXPAYER
DOLLARS ON THIS, SO THAT'S WHY
THE CASE WAS SETTLED.
>> Darren: AND FINALLY, I WANT
TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S
RACE.
AS YOU KNOW, FORMER EDUCATION
SECRETARY REBECCA HOLCOMB
ANNOUNCED SHE'S PLANNING TO TAKE
ON HER FORMER BOSS, THERE'S
SPECULATION YOU'RE CONSIDERING A
RUN.
ARE YOU RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR?
>> Donovan: WELL, DARREN, LIKE
YOU, I GREW UP IN VERMONT AND WE
KNOW ONE THING.
SUMMER'S ARE SHORT HERE.
IT'S SUMMERTIME AND I'M GOING TO
ENJOY THE VERMONT SUMMER.
>> Darren: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
YOU'RE GOING TO TELL US IN THE
FALL?
>> Donovan: WE'LL SEE.
I'M GOING TO ENJOY THE SUMMER.
IT'S WAY TOO EARLY FOR POLITICS.
>> Darren: ARE YOU CONSIDERING
IT?
ARE YOU TALKING TO VERMONTERS?
DO YOU HAVE AN EXPLORATORY
COMMITTEE?
>> Donovan: I DON'T HAVE AN
EXPLORATORY COMMITTEE.
PEOPLE ASK ME AND YOU HAVE THE
CONVERSATION, BUT IT'S NOTHING
MORE THAN THAT AT THIS STAGE AND
I THINK IT'S THE POLITICAL CYCLE
THAT JUST OCCURRED, BUT I'M
FOCUSED ON ENJOYING THE SUMMER
HERE IN VERMONT.
IT'S A SHORT SEASON AND WE GOT
TO GET OUT ON THE LAKE AND WE
GOT TO ENJOY VERMONT AT ITS
BEST.
THAT'S WHAT I'M DOING.
>> Darren: T.J. DONOVAN, THANK
YOU SO MUCH.
APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
>>> UP NEXT, ANALYSIS OF ROBERT
MUELLER'S TESTIMONY ON CAPITOL
HILL AND LATER, BEN & JERRY'S
TAKES THE CREAM OUT OF SOME OF
ITS ICE CREAM.
WE GET THE SCOOP AS CHANNEL 3'S
"YOU CAN QUOTE ME" CONTINUES.
>>> AS I SAID A MAY 9th, THE
REPORT IS -- MAY 29th, THE
REPORT IS MY TESTIMONY AND I
WILL STAY WITHIN THAT TEXT.
>> Darren: AMERICA ON A DAY OF
QUESTIONING ON CAPITOL HILL FOR
ROBERT MUELLER.
THE FORMER FBI DIRECTOR WHO
OVERSAW THE INVESTIGATION INTO
RUSSIAN ELECTION INTERFERENCE IF
2016 SAT BEFORE TWO HOUSE
COMMITTEES.
TRUE TO HIS WORD, MUELLER RARELY
WENT BEYOND THE TEXT OF HIS
REPORT.
TWO OF OUR LOCAL LAWMAKERS SIT
ON THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE
AND QUESTIONED MUELLER ABOUT HIS
REPORT.
>> YES?
>> YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
>> NO.
>> I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT.
>> Darren: QUESTION AFTER
QUESTION WEDNESDAY, BASICALLY
SWATTED AWAY BY THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL.
>> DID ANY MEMBER OF THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL'S OFFICE STAFF TRAVEL
OVERSEAS AS PART OF THE
INVESTIGATION?
>> YES, BUT I CAN'T GO FURTHER
THAN THAT.
>> I'M GOING TO ASK, TO WHICH
COUNTRIES?
>> AND I CAN'T ANSWER THAT.
>> DID THEY MEET WITH FOREIGN
GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS?
>> AGAIN, IT'S OUT OF OUR
BAILIWICK.
>> Darren: NORTH COUNTRY
CONAGREES WOMAN ELISE STEPHAN
NICK WAS JUST ONE OF THE
REPRESENTATIVES WHO DIDN'T GET
MUCH OUT OF MUELLER WHO KEPT
POINTING LAWMAKERS TO HIS
REPORT.
>> IF IT'S IN THE REPORT, THAT
IS ACCURATE.
>> Darren: IN THE MOST
ANTICIPATED CONGRESSIONAL
HEARING IN RECENT MEMORY,
REPUBLICANS LOOK TO CAST DOUBT
ON THE ORIGINS OF THE RUSSIA
PROBE, AND DEMOCRATS HOPE THE
SPECIAL COUNSEL COULD PUT THE
HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF THE MUELLER
REPORT INTO WORDS THE AMERICAN
PUBLIC COULD UNDERSTAND.
MANY FOCUSED ON WHETHER THE
PRESIDENT OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE OR
WORKED WITH THE RUSSIANS.
>> DID YOU FIND THERE WAS NO
COLLUSION BETWEEN THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN AND RUSSIA?
>> WE DON'T USE THE WORD
COLLUSION.
>> THE TERM IS CONSPIRACY THAT
YOU PREFER TO USE?
>> CONSPIRACY, EXACTLY RIGHT.
>> Darren: A WEEK AFTER
ANNOUNCING HIS SUPPORT FOR
IMPEACHING PRESIDENT TRUMP,
VERMONT REPRESENTATIVE PETER
WELCH WALK MUELLER THROUGH SOME
OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN'S CONTACTS
WITH RUSSIA BEFORE ASKING
ANOTHER QUESTION.
>> AND I ASK IF YOU SHARE MY
CONCERN.
MY CONCERN IS, HAVE WE
ESTABLISHED A NEW NORMAL FROM
THIS PAST CAMPAIGN THAT IS GOING
TO APPLY TO FUTURE CAMPAIGNS?
>> I HOPE THIS IS NOT THE NEW
NORMAL, BUT I FEAR IT IS.
>> Darren: WELCH MADE THE CASE
THAT AFTER RUSSIA'S ELECTION
INTERFERENCE IN 2016, THERE IS
EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE THEY'LL
CONTINUE TO MEDDLE IN THE
FUTURE.
>> THERE WOULD BE NO
REPERCUSSIONS WHATSOEVER FOR
RUSSIA IF THEY DID THIS AGAIN
AND AS YOU'VE STATED EARLIER, AS
WE SIT HERE, THEY'RE DOING IT
NOW.
>> Darren: AND JOINING ME NOW TO
TALK ABOUT MUELLER'S TESTIMONY
IS POLITICAL SCIENTIST MATT
DICKINSON.
GOOD MORNING TO YOU.
>> Dickinson: GOOD MORNING.
>> Darren: SO REPUBLICANS ARE
SAYING THIS MEANS NOTHING, THIS
WENT NOWHERE, BUT DEMOCRATS ARE
SAYING THAT THIS PROVES THERE IS
SOME KIND OF CRIME GOING ON
WITHIN THE WHITE HOUSE.
WHO'S RIGHT?
>> Dickinson: WELL, IT DEPENDS
ON THE STANDARDS YOU USE.
THAT WAS PART OF THE
DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THEM WHEN
THE REPORT WAS INITIALLY
RELEASED.
FOR DEMOCRATS, THE ARGUMENT IS
HE WAS NOT FULLY EXONERATED AND
YOU SAW THAT RIGHT OFF THE BAT
WITH JERRY NADLER ASKING
MUELLER, DID THIS REPORT FULLY
EXONERATE TRUMP AS TRUMP HAS
CLAIMED, AND HE SAID NO.
FOR REPUBLICANS, THE ARGUMENT IS
DID YOU FIND CLEAR EVIDENCE OF A
CRIME AND THE ANSWER IS NO,
CERTAINLY NOT IN COLLUSION WITH
RUSSIA, BUT ALSO POSSIBLY ON THE
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
IT'S A LITTLE MORE UNCLEAR.
BOTH SIDES ARE CLAIMING VICTORY
AND THE QUESTION IS WHEN YOU
TALK ABOUT JOE AND JANE PUBLIC,
WHO DO THEY BELIEVE.
>> Darren: THE PRESIDENT
ADDRESSED MUELLER'S TESTIMONY.
HE CALLED THE REPORT A HOAX, A
WITCH HUNT, AND DEEMED THE
INVESTIGATION, QUOTE, OVER.
TAKE A LISTEN.
>> Pres. Trump: THE DEMOCRATS
HAD NOTHING AND NOW THEY HAVE
LESS THAN NOTHING.
AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO
LOSE THE 2020 ELECTION VERY BIG
AND 40 CONGRESSIONAL SEATS
BECAUSE THE PATH THAT THEY
CHOSE.
WHO KNOWS WHERE IT GOES?
>> Darren: PRESIDENT TRUMP
REPEATEDLY CALLED THE HEARING A
DISASTER FOR DEMOCRATS.
WAS IT?
>> Dickinson: WELL, NOT IN THE
SENSE OF IF YOU ARGUE THAT MOST
OF THE PEOPLE DIDN'T ACTUALLY
READ THE 448-PAGE REPORT.
THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE
DEMOCRATS TO, AGAIN, REMIND
PEOPLE OF WHAT THOSE FINDINGS
WERE AND I THINK THEY DID AN
EFFECTIVE JOB WITH A WITNESS
THERE, BOB MUELLER, WHO WASN'T
REALLY WILLING TO SAY MUCH MORE
THAN WHAT THE REPORT ALREADY
SAID, BUT THEY GOT SOME SALIENT
POINTS ACROSS.
I THOUGHT OUR OWN PETER WELCH
WAS PARTICULARLY EFFECTIVE IN
TRYING TO GO BEYOND THE STRICT
LEGAL INTERPRETATION OF THE
FINDINGS AND GET TO AN ETHICAL
QUESTION, WHICH IS SHOULD A
CANDIDATE ACCEPT HELP FROM A
FOREIGN GOVERNMENT IN RUNNING
FOR OFFICE.
SO I THINK THE DEMOCRATS SCORED
POINTS.
NOW, IS THAT GOING TO CHANGE THE
NARRATIVE HERE?
IS THAT GOING TO AFFECT
ELECTIONS COMING FORWARD?
I'M NOT SURE.
>> Darren: I WANT TO PLAY FOR
YOU AN EXCHANGE BETWEEN THE
PRESIDENT AND CBS REPORTER PAULA
REED.
IT GOT REALLY TESTY WHEN SHE
ASKED THE PRESIDENT FOR HIS
REACTION TO ONE OF MUELLER'S FEW
DEFINITIVE STATEMENTS THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP COULD BE CHARGED
WITH A CRIME ONCE HE LEAVES
OFFICE.
TAKE A LISTEN.
>> Reporter: NEURAL SAID YOU
COULD BE CHARGE -- MUELLER SAID
YOU COULD BE CHARGED ONCE YOU
LEAVE OFFICE.
>> Pres. Trump: NO, HE DIDN'T
SAY THAT.
AGAIN, YOU'RE FAKE NEWS AND
YOU'RE RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE
LIST.
>> Reporter: MASS WHAT HE SAID.
>> Pres. Trump: GO BACK TO WHAT
HE SAID.
READ HIS CORRECTION.
>> Reporter: THIS WAS NOT A
CORRECTION.
>> Darren: HERE IS THE TESTIMONY
THAT PAULA WAS ASKING ABOUT.
>> COULD YOU CHARGE THE
PRESIDENT WITH A CRIME AFTER HE
LEFT OFFICE?
>> YES.
>> YOU BELIEVE THAT HE
COMMITTED -- YOU COULD CHARGE
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES WITH OBSTRUCTION OF
JUSTICE AFTER HE LEFT OFFICE?
>> YES.
>> Darren: DO YOU THINK THAT'S
LIKELY?
>> Dickinson: PROBABLY NOT, BUT
AGAIN, A LOT OF IT DEPENDS ON
THE POLITICAL CIRCUMSTANCES
AFTER HE LEAVES OFFICE, WHETHER
IT'S IN 2020 OR FOUR YEARS
LATER.
THE DIFFICULTY IS, DOES HE HAVE
A THREE-PRONGED TEST FOR PROVING
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE AND ONE
OF THOSE PRONGS IS INTENT.
THE ARKT IS HE FIRED -- THE
ARGUMENT IS HE FIRED JAMES COMEY
IN ORDER TO IMPEDE THE
INVESTIGATION, TOOK OTHER
ACTIONS TO DO THINGS WHICH THEY
DIDN'T COMPLY WITH.
THE PROBLEM IS UNDER ARTICLE 2
OF THE CONSTITUTION, HE HAS A
RIGHT TO FIRE JAMES COMEY, SO IT
BECOMES REALLY DIFFICULT AND
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE COST OF
PURSUING AN OBSTRUCTION OF
JUSTICE CHARGE FOR AN
EX-PRESIDENT, I THINK A LOT OF
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY IT'S NOT
WORTH IT.
>> Darren: THERE ARE OTHER
INVESTIGATIONS GOING ON AND
MUELLER DID NOT AND COULD NOT
ADDRESS THOSE.
WHY?
>> Dickinson: WELL, AS HE SAID
REPEATEDLY, PARTICULARLY IN
RESPONSE FOR REPUBLICANS' EFFORT
TON TRY TO TURN THIS INTO AN
INVESTIGATION OF THE FBI AND THE
ORIGINS OF THE INVESTIGATION AND
YOU HEARD A LOT OF THEM TALKING
ABOUT THE STEELE REPORT.
THE INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS UNDERGOING
HIS OWN INVESTIGATION ABOUT THE
SOURCES OF THIS AND YOU CAN'T
VIOLATE THE CONFIDENTIALITY OF
THAT INVESTIGATION UNTIL THE
RESULTS ARE KNOWN.
FLURL WAS QUITE RIGHT -- MUELLER
WAS QUITE RIGHT IN SAYING I'M
GOING TO STAY AWAY FROM IT, BUT
POLITICALLY, REPUBLICANS WERE
SCORING POINTS HERE.
YOU SAW THIS OF ELISE, A LOT OF
THIS WERE DEALING WITH ISSUES
WHICH SHE KNEW HE COULDN'T
ANSWER, BUT QUITE FRANKLY, SHE
SAID I WANT TO GET THIS ON THE
RECORD SO PEOPLE KNOW THERE'S
ANOTHER SIDE OF THE STORY.
>> Darren: CRITICIZING MUELLER'S
PERFORMANCE, WHAT DID YOU MAKE
IT?
>> Dickinson: THERE ARE TIMES HE
SEEM INARTICULATE AND HE HAD TO
BACKTRACK ON SOME CLAIMS IN
RESPONSE TO TED LU, AND HE WAS
SAYING HAVE YOU OBSTRUCTED
JUSTICE, AND HE SAID NO.
HIS JOB WAS JUST TO REITERATE
THE IMPORTANT POINTS OF THE
REPORT AND HE DID THAT.
>> Darren: GETTING BACK TO
CONGRESSMAN WELCH'S QUESTION
ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS
GOING TO BE THE NEW NORM FOR
POLITICS, IS IT?
>> Dickinson: IT WAS A GREAT
QUESTION AND YOU SAW MUELLER
KIND OF DEJECTEDLY SAYING, I'M
APRAY IT IS.
A LOT OF -- AFRAID IT IS.
A LOT OF THAT WILL DETERMINE THE
RESULTS AND THE POLITICAL
IMPLICATIONS DOWN THE ROAD, BUT
IF PEOPLE FIND THIS WORKS
POLITICALLY, WE'LL SEE MORE OF
IT.
>> Darren: MATT DICKINSON, THANK
YOU FOR JOINING ME THIS MORNING.
>>> THE PROBE INTO HUSH MONEY
PAYMENTS MICHAEL COHEN ALLEGEDLY
MADE TO STORMY DANIELS AND KAREN
McDOUGAL IS OVER.
NOW SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY WANTS
TO SEE THE PAPERWORK.
LEAHY PRESSED FBI DIRECTOR CHRIS
WRAY ON WHEN CONGRESS WILL GET
TO SEE INVESTIGATIVE MATERIALS.
WRAY SAID IT ISN'T NORMAL THAT
THE FBI RELEASES THAT
INVESTIGATION, BUT THEN LEAHY
POINTED TO THE 880,000 PAGES OF
DOCUMENTS AND DOZENS OF
INTERVIEWS THAT THE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE GOT DURING THE HILLARY
CLINTON EMAIL INVESTIGATION
AFTER REQUESTS FROM REPUBLICANS.
LEAHY PRESSED HIM ABOUT THAT.
TAKE A LISTEN.
>> I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THIS
ADMINISTRATION WOULD TREAT THE
INVESTIGATION OF HILLARY CLINTON
DIFFERENTLY THAN AN
INVESTIGATION INVOLVING DONALD
TRUMP.
IT MIGHT APPEAR THAT WAY.
BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T RELEASE
THESE FILES NOW, IT'S CONTRARY
TO YOUR RECENT PRECEDENT.
IS IT THE CASE THAT THE FBI ONLY
PROVIDES INVESTIGATIVE RECORDS
WHEN THE REQUEST IS MADE BY
REPUBLICANS?
>> IT IS CERTAINLY THE CASE THAT
IN MY FIRST TWO YEARS, ALMOST,
AS FBI DIRECTOR, WE HAVE BEEN
ENGAGED WITH NUMEROUS COMMITTEES
AND COUNTLESS OVERSIGHT REQUESTS
INVOLVING ALL SORTS OF THINGS.
MY EXPERIENCE IS WE TRY TO WORK
THROUGH EACH ONE ON A
CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.
>> BUT THE MATTER YOU TALK ABOUT
IS NOW CLOSED, SO WILL YOU
RELEASE THE 302s AND THE OTHER
RELEVANT FILES IN THAT HUSH
MONEY INVESTIGATION THE SAME WAY
YOU DID ON THE CLINTON
INVESTIGATION?
>> I'D BE HAPPY TO TAKE A LOOK
AT ANY REQUESTS FROM YOU OR ANY
OTHER MEMBER OF THE HILL AND SEE
IF THERE'S MORE INFORMATION WE
CAN PROVIDE.
>> Darren: AFTER WRAY AGREED TO
LOOK AT WHAT INVESTIGATIVE
MATERIALS COULD BE SHARED WITH
LAWMAKERS, THE EXCHANGE TURNED
TO ELECTION SECURITY.
WRAY TOLD LEAHY THAT WHILE THERE
ARE PROBLEMS, AMERICANS SHOULD
FEEL CONFIDENT IN OUR ELECTIONS
AND OUR ELECTION SYSTEMS.
>>> COMING UP NEXT, YOUR
FAVORITE BEN & JERRY'S FLAVORS
MIGHT COME DAIRY FREE.
>> Darren: VERMONT-BASED BEN &
JERRY'S KICKED OFF A NATIONAL
TOUR SHOWCASING ITS NEW VEGAN
ICE CREAMS.
SO FAR IT HAS ABOUT A DOZEN
FLAVORS OUT THAT ARE
PLANT-BASED.
THEY USE AN ALMOND MILK BASE
WITH CHUNKS AND SWIRLS OF EACH
FLAVOR THAT ALSO DON'T HAVE
ANIMAL PRODUCTS.
BEN & JERRY'S SAYS NONDAIRY IS A
FAST GROWING SEGMENT OF THE
FROZEN DESSERT MARKET AND
PROFITABLE.
THE COMPANY HOLDS ABOUT 30% OF
THE NON-DAIRY FROZEN DESSERT
MARKET AND IT EXPECTS TO GROW
THAT AS MORE FLAVORS COME OUT.
CAT VIGLIENZONI TALKS WITH NEILA
HORIKAWA ABOUT THE COMPANY'S
DECISION TO GO DAIRY-FREE.
>> Cat: WHY WOULD YOU GO
NON-DAIRY?
>> Horikawa: IT'S A REALLY
INTERESTING STORY.
WE WERE PETITIONED BY CHANGE.ORG
TO CREATE NON-DAIRY FLAVORS FOR
OUR FANS, SO OVER ALMOST 30,000
FANS HAD SIGNED THE PETITION
DEMANDING THAT WE BRING BEN &
JERRY'S TO THE NON-DAIRY
CATEGORY.
SO THAT SORT OF SPARKED THE
INTRIGUE.
>> Cat: AND WHAT ARE SOME OF THE
CHALLENGES IN WORKING WITH A
MILK THAT IS NOT CREAM?
IT'S ALMOND MILK?
>> Horikawa: IT'S ALMOND MILK
AND THERE ARE A LOT OF
CHALLENGES.
I'M SURE PLENTY OF PEOPLE HAVE
TASTED SOME NONDAIRY DESSERTS
THAT TASTED A LITTLE CRYSTALY OR
THE TEXTURE IS NOT THERE OR
REALLY TASTED LIKE WATER, SO
FINDING THE RIGHT FLAVOR THAT WE
CAN HAVE THE INDULGENT CHUNKS
AND SWIRLS THAT PEOPLE LOVE AND
ALSO HAVE TEXTURES THAT ARE
SMOOTH AND MIRROR THE ICE CREAM
EXPERIENCE CAN BE REALLY
CHALLENGING.
>> Cat: HOW DO YOU WORK THROUGH
THAT?
>> Horikawa: A LOT OF
ITERATIONS.
OUR DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IS
AUTHOR REPOP WE DO A LOT OF
TASTE ALSO, CONSUMER TESTING
BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARDS DO
WHATEVER IT TAKES FOR CONSTANTLY
LOOKING FOR NEW WAYS AND NEW
INGREDIENTS TO BRING THE BEST
DESSERTS FORWARD?
>> Cat: WHAT ARE SOME OF THE
FLAVORS THAT DIDN'T WORK?
>> Horikawa: OH, THAT'S A GOOD
QUESTION.
I MEAN, I THINK THE WAY THAT I
WOULD ANSWER THAT IS, YOU KNOW,
WE'RE THE ORIGINATORS OF
CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIE DOUGH ICE
CREAM.
IT WAS A FAN SUGGESTION YEARS
AGO, 1984, AND WE ALWAYS KNEW WE
WANTED TO BRING THAT TO THE
NON-DAIRY SEGMENT AND WE
RECENTLY JUST DID AND IT'S
AMAZING, BUT THERE WERE MANY
FAILED STEPS ALONG THE WAY WHICH
SORT OF EXPLAINS WHY WE HADN'T
LAUNCHED IT UNTIL EARLY THIS
YEAR.
JUST KNOWING THAT WE NEED TO
DELIVER A DESSERT THAT'S AT A
CERTAIN LEVEL AND PEOPLE HAVE A
LOT OF EXPECTATIONS ABOUT BEN &
JERRY'S, IT TOOK A LOT OF
ITERATIONS, SO THERE WERE
DEFINITELY SOME FLOPS BEFORE WE
GOT TO THE FINAL.
>> Cat: HOW DO YOU BALANCE THAT
ALMOND MILK HAVING A DIFFERENT
FLAVOR PROFILE THAN REGULAR MILK
DOES?
>> Horikawa: YEAH, THERE ARE
SOME FLAVORS THAT DON'T WORK
WITH AN ALMOND MILK BASE AND WE
HAVE FOUND THAT ALONG THE WAY AS
WELL.
MIN, FOR EXAMPLE, IS A LITTLE
BIT CHALLENGING WITH -- MINT,
FOR EXAMPLE, IS A LITTLE BIT
CHALLENGING WITH THAT ALMOND
NUTTY BASE, SO YOU WORK WITH
WHAT WORKS AND YOU NROR AROUND
AVENUES THAT DON'T WORK.
I THINK ULTIMATELY THE REASON WE
DID LAND ON ALMOND IS IT
PROVIDED THE BLANKEST OF
CANVASES FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT
BASES.
THERE'S SO MANY BASES OUT THERE,
BUT ULTIMATELY, THE ALMOND BASE
GAVE US THE MOST VARIETY AND
FLEXIBILITY TO DELIVER THE BEN &
JERRY'S EXPERIENCE.
>> Cat: SO WHERE DOES NON-DAIRY
GO FROM HERE?
IS IT THE TYPE OF THING WHERE
YOU JUST CONTINUE MAKING
ITERATIONS OF FLAVORS, OR DO YOU
HAVE THE CORE FLAVORS YOU'RE
GOING TO STICK WITH RIGHT NOW IN
NON-DAIRY AND NOW FOCUS YOUR
ATTENTION ELSEWHERE?
>> Horikawa: FOR NON-DAIRY,
WE'RE DEFINITELY COMMITTED TO A
LONG-TERM SORT OF INNOVATION
PATH.
WE -- I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE
THINK NON-DAIRY MIGHT BE A
TREND.
AT BEN & JERRY'S, WE BELIEVE
OTHERWISE.
WE'RE COMMITTED TO THE IDEA OF
THAT AND THE DATA SUPPORTS THE
IDEA THAT NON-DAIRY AND
PLANT-BASED OFFERINGS ARE HERE
TO STAY AND THE DATA SUPPORTS
THE IDEA THAT OUR FANS ARE
COMMITTED TO NON-DAIRY AND THE
PLANT-BASED SEGMENT IN GENERAL
CONTINUES TO GROW, WHETHER IT'S
DIETARY RESTRICTIONS THAT BRING
YOU IN OR A DESIRE FOR NEW
FLAVORS OR JUST LIFESTYLE HEALTH
AND WELLNESS DRIVERS.
IT CONTINUES TO GROW AND SHOWS A
LOT OF PROMISE FOR MORE GROWTH.
KAY THINK SOME PEOPLE ARE --
>> Cat: I THINK SOME PEOPLE ARE
LIKE, WELL, BEN & JERRY'S WAS
ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, THE VERMONT
COWS AND THE DAIRY HERE AND
THINGS LIKE THAT.
DID YOU GET ANY PUSHBACK FROM
GOING NON-DAIRY?
>> Horikawa: NO, WE DIDN'T, AND
COWS ARE PART OF OUR DNA AND
THEY WILL CONTINUE TO BE.
BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE
OTHER BRAND PLAYERS THAT HAVE
BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME AND
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAD
RECOGNIZED AT THE TIME THAT
THERE WAS A LOT OF OFFERINGS
THAT WERE OUT THERE THAT THEY
FELT THEY NEEDED TO SACRIFICE
FOR, EITHER GIVE UP FLAVOR OR
GIVE UP TEXTURE, AND ULTIMATELY
THAT WAS AN AVENUE FOR US TO
REALLY BROADEN WHO COULD
EXPERIENCE OUR PRODUCT AND
INVITE MORE FANS IN, WHICH IS
WHAT WE'RE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO
DO, SO I THINK IT WAS A GOOD
FIT.
>> Cat: ANY PREVIEWS YOU CAN
GIVE US ON FLAVORS YOU'RE
WORKING ON RIGHT NOW?
>> Horikawa: I CAN'T REVEAL
BEHIND THE CURTAIN, BUT I CAN
SAY THERE IS A LOT TO BE EXCITED
ABOUT, BASED ON THE FACT THAT WE
ARE WHOLLY COMMITTED TO
NON-DAIRY.
>> Darren: AND THAT WILL DO IT
FOR CHANNEL 3'S "YOU CAN QUOTE
ME."
THE NEWS CONTINUES NEXT.
STAY WITH US AND HAVE A GREAT
DAY, EVERYBODY.
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