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YCQM Nov. 24, 2019

(WCAX)
Published: Nov. 23, 2019 at 5:07 PM EST
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Darren: AND GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE,

I'M DARREN PERRON.

ON CHANNEL 3, "YOU CAN QUOTE

ME," CONGRESSMAN WELCH

RESPONDS TO BOMBSHELL

TESTIMONY DURING THE

IMPEACHMENT HEARING.

ALSO, THE WIVES OF TWO MEN WHO

LIKELY DIED FROM EXPOSURE TO

BURN PITS IN WAR ZONES JOIN ME

TO DISCUSS HOW THEY ARE

RAISING AWARENESS, MONEY FOR

CANCER CAUSES, AND HONORING

THEIR HUSBAND'S MEMORIES.

PLUS, SPOTTING SCAMS AROUND

THE HOLIDAYS.

WE DID THE DIGGING SO YOU CAN

BE SURE YOUR DONATIONS GO TO

LEGITIMATE CHARITIES.

AND WE FOLLOWED THE MONEY IN

VERMONT.

AND THAT'S WHERE WE BEGIN THIS

MORNING.

WHEN IT COMES TO COLLECTING

CASH, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT

YOUR MONEY IS ACTUALLY GOING

TO THE CAUSE YOU WANT TO

SUPPORT?

OUR INVESTIGATION REVEALED

PAID FUNDRAISERS FOR-PROFIT

COMPANIES THAT ARE HIRED BY

CHARITIES TO RAISE MONEY BY

PHONE CALLS OR MAILINGS ARE

LOOSELY REGULATED.

THEY CAN KEEP UP TO 100% OF

DONATED MONEY.

WE DISCOVERED MILLIONS OF

DOLLARS AMERICANS DONATE TO

GOOD CAUSES NEVER GET TO THE

PROGRAMS THEMSELVES, AND

INSTEAD PAY FOR THE

FUNDRAISING.

CAT VIGLIENZONI JOINS US LIVE

IN THE STUDIO WITH WHAT SHE

LEARNED ABOUT FUNDRAISING

TACTICS IN VERMONT.

CAT VIGLIENZONI TO BE CLEAR,

THIS IS NOT TO DISCOURAGE YOU

FROM DONATING, MERELY TO MAKE

SURE YOUR CHARITY OF CHOICE

GETS TO KEEP AS MUCH OF YOUR

DONATION AS POSSIBLE.

FORTUNATELY VERMONT MADE THAT

INFORMATION EASY TO FIND OUT,

UNLIKE OTHER STATES, VERMONT

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE

TRACKS IN DETAIL WHO HAS BEEN

PAID FOR RAISE MONEY HERE AND

HOW MUCH IS GOING TO CHAIR I.

THE GOAL WITH THIS DATABASE IS

TO HELP YOU MAKE INFORMED

DECISIONS WHERE YOU GIVE YOUR

MONEY.

I SPOKE TO LOCAL CHARITIES FOR

FIND OUT WHEN THEY WOULD DO

THE FUNDRAISING THEMSELVES AND

WHEN THEY WOULD HIRE

PROFESSIONALS.

700 ENVELOPES.

>> WE DID 3,000 THE LAST ONE.

>> Cat: STAFF AND VOLUNTEERS

EXTENT -- EXTENT SPENT AN

EVENING SEALING LETTERS TO

POTENTIAL DONORS.

NON-PROFIT MAKES SURE THEY GET

THE MOST BANG FOR THEIR BUCK

BY DOING ALMOST ALL THEIR

OUTREACH IN-HOUSE.

>> WE SAVE SO MUCH MONEY BY

DOING MORE OF THE WORK HERE.

IT IS REALLY JUST PAPER AND

PRINTING, AND OUR TIME THAT IT

IS KIND OF FUN, TOO.

>> Cat: FUNDRAISING IS THE

BREAD AND BUTTER.

THREE QUARTERS OF ANNUAL

REVENUE COMES FROM CHARITY

SUPPORT.

PEOPLE WHO SEE ANIMALS LIKE

MOLLY AND WANT TO FIND THEM

FOREVER HOMES.

MOST PEOPLE GIVE DURING THE

HOLIDAY SEASON.

RIGHT NOW THEY ARE GETTING

THEIR NAME IN FRONT OF EYES

AND WALLETS TO COMPETE FOR

DONATION DOLLARS.

>> THIS MAILING IS SO

SUPPORTERS, HIGHLIGHTING ALL

THE AMAZING THINGS WE DO WITH

THE DONATION, HOPEFULLY

ENCOURAGING THEM TO GIVE

AGAIN.

>> WE WANT EVERY DOLLAR TO

COUNT.

WE WANT EVERY VERMONTER IN

NEED TO BE SERVED.

>> CHRIS CURTIS IS THE CHIEF

OF THE PUBLIC PROTECTION SDI

DIVISION OF THE VERMONT

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, IN

CHARGE OF MAKING SURE YOU KNOW

WHERE YOUR MONEY IS REALLY

GOING.

>> SOME OF THEM THEY DIDN'T

RAISE ANYTHING, SO THERE WAS

NOTHING PAID.

>> Cat: HE SHOWS US THIS

DATABASE, WHICH TRACKS PAID

FUNDRAISERS, COMPANIES HIRED

TO BRING IN DONATIONS.

IT SHOWS YOU HOW MUCH OF YOUR

MONEY IS GUARANTEED TO GO TO

THE CHARITY, AND HOW MUCH

ACTUALLY DID.

>> VERMONTERS CAN LOOK AT THAT

FOR THEMSELVES AND MAKE A

DETERMINATION WHETHER OR IF

THEY WANT TO GIVE, OR GIVE TO

THE ORGANIZATION DIRECTLY, AND

BYPASS THE PAID FUNDRAISING

OPERATION.

>> Cat: PAID FUNDRAISING IS

LEGAL AND LEGITIMATE, BUT ONE

TREND CURTIS SAID HE NOTICES

WHEN HE LOOKS AT THEIR DATA

IS, THERE ARE FEWER OF THEM.

THERE'S BEEN A 60% DROP JUST

IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS.

OF THE 14 PAID FUNDRAISING

COMPANIES REGISTERED HERE NOW,

ALMOST ALL OF THEIR 108

CAMPAIGNS ARE FOR NATIONAL

ORGANIZATIONS.

>> PEOPLE HAVE LEARNED THAT

THEY CAN DO THIS BETTER FOR

THEMSELVES USING A GREAT

DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR AS PART

OF THEIR TEAM AND NOT HAVE TO

HIRE OUT OF HOUSE.

>> Cat: BUT WE DID SEE A FEW

LOCAL NON-PROFITS ON THE LIST.

INCLUDING THE VERMONT POLICE

K-9 ASSOCIATION, THE

UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT MEDICAL

CENTER, VERMONT PBS, AND

SPECIAL OLYMPICS VERMONT.

>> THERE ARE A LOT OF

COMPETING DEMANDS FOR DOLLARS,

EVEN WITHIN THE SPECIAL

OLYMPICS MOVEMENT.

>> Cat: SPECIAL OLYMPICS

VERMONT CEO SAYS THEIR MISSION

CENTERS ON INCLUSIVITY, FROM

ATHLETE EMPLOYMENT TO UNIFIED

SPORTS TEAMS, TO OTHER EFFORTS

THAT ENRICH THE LIVES OF

PEOPLE WITH AND WITHOUT

INTELLECTUAL DISABILITIES.

BUT THOSE PROGRAMS COME AT A

COST.

THEY HAVE TO RAISE ALMOST

EVERY DOLLAR IN THEIR $1.3

MILLION BUDGET.

[ CHEERING ]

THE PENGUIN PLUNGE BRINGS IN A

FRIGID 40% OF THAT.

BUT ABOUT 20 TO 25% COMES IN

DURING THE GIVING SEASON.

RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE REACHING

OUT TO DONORS THROUGH

MAILINGS, PHONE CALLS, AND

MORE.

SOME HAPPENS FROM THEIR SOUTH

BURLINGTON OFFICE; OTHERS

THROUGH A NATIONAL CAMPAIGN.

>> I THINK BOTH ARE EFFECTIVE.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE KNOW

ABOUT ASKING AND GIVING IS

THAT IT TAKES MULTIPLE TRIES

IN MULTIPLE DIFFERENT WAYS.

>> Cat: BUT HIRING

PROFESSIONALS COMES AT A COST.

AND WE SAW THE AMOUNT OF PAID

FUNDRAISING COMPANY KEPT

VARIED WIDELY.

DIAL AMERICA MARKETING

INCORPORATED PROMISED AND GAVE

JUST 10% OF THE 18,000 THEY

RAISED IN A YEAR.

HERITAGE COMPANY INCORPORATED

COLLECTED ABOUT 75,000 OVER

THREE YEARS.

50 TO 70% OF THAT WENT TO

CHAIR I.

>> ON YOUR MARK, SET.

>> TO KEEP ALL YOUR MONEY

HELPING ATHLETES, SEE SAYS

REACH OUT AT THEIR OFFICE

DIRECTLY, OR CONTRIBUTE TO ONE

OF THEIR EVENTS LIKE THE

PLUNGE.

THEY GET TO KEEP ALL OF WHAT

THEY RAISE THERE.

>> WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR EVERY

DOLLAR, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,

EACH ONE MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

>> Cat: HOW DO YOU KNOW IF

YOU'RE DEALING WITH A

NON-PROFIT DIRECTLY OR WITH A

PAID FUNDRAISER?

CURTIS SAID IF YOU ARE ON THE

PHONE, JUST ASK.

AND ALSO, ASK HOW MUCH OF YOUR

DONATION IS GOING TO THE

CHARITY ITSELF.

IT IS A RED FLAG IF THEY CAN'T

OR WON'T TELL YOU.

AND ALSO, CALL THE NON-PROFIT

DIRECTLY AND JUST ASK IF THEY

ARE FUNDRAISING.

ALSO MAKE SURE YOU AREN'T

GETTING SCAMMED BY A FAKE

FUNDRAISER.

THEY ARE OUT THERE.

DARREN?

>> Darren: THANK YOU.

STAND BY.

NEXT WE'LL DIG DEEPER INTO HOW

YOU CAN AVOID THOSE SCAMS,

PLUS, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

JOINS US WITH SOME ADVICE AS

WELL.

AND LATER, MILITARY BURN PITS

MAKING SOLDIERS SICK.

STILL AHEAD, THE WIVES OF TWO

VERMONTERS WHO DIED JOIN US,

HOPING CONTINUED AWARENESS

WILL SAVE LIVES.

DON'T GO AWAY.

WHILE SOME OF THE SHAM

CHARITIES THAT CLAIM TO HELP

VETERANS OR FIRST RESPONDERS

HAVE BEEN SHUT DOWN OVER THE

PAST COUPLE YEARS, THE PAID

FUNDRAISING COMPANIES THAT

RAISE MONEY FOR THEM ARE STILL

ACTIVE.

AND STILL COLLECTING MONEY.

IN THE NAME OF VETERANS,

POLICE AND FIREFIGHTERS.

CAT VIGLIENZONI JOINS US AGAIN

WITH WHAT YOU NEED TO ASK TO

MAKE SURE YOUR MONEY GETS TO A

LEGITIMATE CHAIR I.

>> Cat: IT'S TRICKY.

YOU ARE FACED WITH A CALLER OR

FLYER IN THE MAIL TUGGING AT

YOUR HEARTSTRINGS.

THEY TELL YOU THAT HELPING

VETERANS, POLICE, KIDS OR

ANIMALS.

THEY WANT YOU TO GIVE YOUR

MONEY TO HELP.

THAT'S ALL WELL AND GOOD, IF

THE CHARITY IS LEGIT.

>> YOU ALWAYS WANT TO BE

CAREFUL.

>> Cat: CHRIS CURTIS WITH THE

PUBLIC PROTECTION DIVISION OF

THE VERMONT ATTORNEY GENERAL'S

OFFICE SAID WHILE YOU SHOULD

EXPECT TO GET SOME KIND OF

LETTER OR CARD, EVEN A PHONE

CALL DURING THE NEXT COUPLE

MONTHS, YOU SHOULD NOT ASSUME

THAT JUST BECAUSE IT'S A

PROFESSIONAL PAMPHLET, OR A

GOOD SALES PITCH, THAT IT'S

LEGITIMATE.

OR EVEN THAT IT IS ACTUALLY

REPRESENTING THE CHARITY IT

SATISFIES IT IS.

>> THERE CAN BE IMPOSTER

SCAMS, WHERE SOMEBODY IS

IMPERSONATING A NON-PROFIT

ORGANIZATION.

>> Cat: THE BEST WAY TO AVOID

PARTING WITH YOUR MONEY TO A

SCAMMER?

DO A LITTLE DIGGING.

ASK QUESTIONS LIKE WHO THE

PERSON IS, WHAT THE CHARITY

IS, WHERE IT'S LOCATED, HOW

YOUR DONATION WILL BE USED,

AND IF THEY ARE A PAID

FUNDRAISER.

THEN DOUBLE CHECK THAT

INFORMATION YOURSELF.

BE WARY OF ANYONE WHO

PRESSURES YOU INTO GIVING

MONEY RIGHT AWAY, ESPECIALLY

THROUGH CASH MAILINGS OR WIRE

TRANSFERS.

IF YOU GET A LETTER THANKING

YOU FOR A DONATION YOU ALREADY

MADE, AND YOU KNOW YOU DIDN'T,

IT IS ALMOST CERTAINLY A SCAM,

AND BE EXTRA CAREFUL WITH

EMAILS ASKING YOU FOR MONEY

BECAUSE THEY MIGHT NOT BE

SAFE.

THE BEST WAY TO AVOID SCAMMERS

IS TO REACH OUT TO YOUR

CHARITY OF CHOICE DIRECTLY AND

ASK HOW YOU CAN SEND THEM

MONEY.

>> REALLY, CALL AND VERIFY AND

AUTHENTICATE THE NON-PROFITS

YOU ARE GIVING TO.

THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE THING.

>> Cat: NON-PROFITS WE SPOKE

WITH AGREE.

SPECIAL OLYMPICS VERMONT SAID

THEY ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO

TAKE YOUR CALLS AND TALK TO

YOU ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY

OFFER AND WHERE YOUR DONATION

WILL BE USED.

>> BEING REALLY CLEAR AND

EXPLICIT ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT WE

DO IS HUGE.

>> Cat: AT THE HUMANE SOCIETY

OF CHITTENDEN COUNTY, IF YOU

REACH OUT TO THEM DIRECTLY,

YOU GET A PERSONAL RESPONSE

BACK.

>> PERSONALLY I SIGN AND WRITE

LETTERS TO EVERY PERSON WHO

MAKES A GIFT OF ANY AMOUNT.

THERE IS NO GIFT TOO SMALL.

>> Darren: CAT JOINS ME NOW

ALONG WITH THE ATTORNEY

GENERAL, T.J. DONOVAN.

GOOD MORNING TO BOTH OF YOU.

>> Cat: GOOD MORNING.

>> Darren: LET'S START WITH

WHAT IS AVAILABLE FOR

RESOURCES FROM YOUR OFFICE, SO

THAT FOLKS CAN LOOK TO SEE IF

THEY ARE BEING SCAMMED.

>> SURE.

THE FIRST THING PEOPLE SHOULD

DO IS GO TO AGOVERMONT.GOV, SO

THEY CAN ACCESS THE REPORT

THAT CAT CHRONICD ABOUT WHO

THE PAID FUNDRAISERS ARE.

THE NEXT TOOL AVAILABLE IS

KNOWLEDGE, AND THAT MEANS

ASKING QUESTIONS.

WHEN YOU GET THAT CALL OR YOU

GET THAT SOLICITATION, ASK THE

QUESTION.

ARE YOU A PAID FUND RAISER?

THE SECOND FOLLOW-UP QUESTION

IS THIS: WHAT ARE YOU TAKING,

WHAT IS THE PERCENT?

IF THEY DON'T TELL YOU THAT,

ASK US, BECAUSE I THINK

VERMONTERS ARE GENEROUS, THEY

GIVE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, BUT

ESPECIALLY OVER THE HOLIDAYS,

AND THEY EXPECT THAT THEIR

MONEY IS GOING TO THE CHARITY

TO ADDRESS THE CAUSE THEY

BELIEVE IN, NOT TO A PAID

FUNDRAISER.

>> Darren: YOU MENTIONED TO ME

WHILE WE WERE CHATTING THERE

ARE OTHER RESOURCES, TOO.

>> Cat: COUPLE QUESTIONS I GOT

WERE FROM PEOPLE WHO LIVE

OUTSIDE OF VERMONT AND WANTED

TO KNOW WHAT KIND OF RESOURCES

WERE AVAILABLE ON A NATIONAL

LEVEL.

THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU HAS

A CHARITY SECTION, ALSO

CHARITY NAVIGATOR, A PRETTY

GOOD WEBSITE, TOO, ESPECIALLY

DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, IF YOU

ARE OUT OF STATE AND DEALING

WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

>> Darren: ATTORNEY GENERAL,

WHAT ARE THE MOST COMMON SCAMS

YOUR OFFICE HEARS ABOUT DURING

THE HOLIDAY SEASON?

>> WELL, THE MOST COMMON SCAM

THAT WE SEE YEAR-ROUND IS

GOING TO BE THE IRS SCAM.

AND ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO

PULL ON PEOPLE'S HEARTSTRINGS,

WHETHER IT'S ABOUT CHILDREN,

WHETHER IT'S ABOUT MILITARY

VETERANS, WHETHER IT'S BEEN

ANIMALS, CERTAINLY YOU ARE

GOING TO SEE THAT, OVER THE

HOLIDAYS.

AND I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD JUST

BE CAREFUL.

OF COURSE WE WANT PEOPLE TO

GIVE, AND VERMONTERS BY AND

LARGE ARE AN INCREDIBLY

GENEROUS GROUP.

LET'S JUST ASK THE QUESTION, I

THINK, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND

CHARITIES UTILIZING PAID

FUNDRAISERS, BUT WE ARE A

SMALL STATE.

IT IS A CALL TO ACTION FOR

VERMONTERS TO VOLUNTEER THEIR

TIME TO PUT THOSE STAMPS ON

THE ENVELOPES AND DO THOSE

PHONATHONS THEMSELVES, BECAUSE

THAT'S HOW MOST LOCAL

CHARITIES OPERATE IN THE

STATE.

I THINK WE ARE PRETTY LUCKY.

>> Darren: CAT, DURING YOUR

INVESTIGATION DID ANY OF THESE

NON-PROFITS REVEAL HOW THEY

ARE MOVING AWAY FROM PAID

FUNDRAISING?

>> Cat: RIGHT.

CHRIS CURTIS MENTIONED ONE OF

THEM, HAVING A GOOD

DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR ON STAFF,

WHO CAN DEAL WITH, YOU KNOW,

BOTH THE FUNDRAISING ASPECT,

ALSO THEY MIGHT DEAL WITH YOUR

SOCIAL MEDIA PREPS AS WELL.

THAT'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING

WE -- PRESENCE AS WELL.

WE HEARD FROM NON-PROFITS,

STARTING TO LEVERAGE SOCIAL

MEDIA TO GET THE WORD OUT TO

PEOPLE WHO ALREADY EXPRESSED

AN INTEREST IN THEIR MISSION

AND IN WHAT THEY DO.

ALSO, YOU KNOW, YOU SAW THIS

AT THE HUMANE SOCIETY, GETTING

VOLUNTEERS BOARD TO STUFF

ANIMALS, OR MAYBE MAKING A

PHONE CALL, OR TALKING TO

THEIR FRIENDS.

WE'VE SEEN A LOT MORE OF THESE

EVENTS POPPING UP, TOO.

WE HAVE THE PLUNGE, THE BIG

ONE FOR SPECIAL OLYMPICS

VERMONT, HUMANE SOCIETY HAS

SEVERAL THROUGHOUT THE YEAR,

SEVERAL WALKS, PURSES FOR PAWS

COMING UP AT THE BEGINNING OF

NEXT YEAR.

AND THOSE ARE ALWAYS TO GET

PEOPLE INTERACTIVE WITH THE

CHARITY, AND ENGAGING, BECAUSE

ONE THING I DID HEAR FROM

SPECIAL OLYMPICS VERMONT, MANY

OF THEIR DONORS ACTUALLY START

AS VOLUNTEERS.

SO YOU GET PEOPLE IN THAT WAY,

AND THROUGH EVENTS THAT CAN

CAUSE THEM TO, YOU KNOW,

REALLY GET INVOLVED WITH YOUR

CHARITY IN A BIGGER WAY.

ALSO, PEOPLE ARE RAISING

MONEY, IT IS EASIER FOR PEOPLE

TO ASK THEIR OPEN FRIENDS FOR

MONEY AS OPPOSED TO YOU HAVING

TO MAKE THE EXTRA CONNECTION.

>> Darren: SURE.

WHAT ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WHAT CAN YOUR OFFICE DO ABOUT

GOING AFTER THESE PEOPLE?

THE COURT: THERE'S A COUPLE

THINGS --

>>>.

>> IT CAN BE CRIMINAL OR

CIVIL.

YOU HAVE CRIMINAL PENALTIES.

UNDER A CONSUMER PROTECTION

LAW, ANYBODY THAT IS ACTING IN

WHAT WE CALL AN UNFAIR OR

DECEPTIVE ACT IS CERTAINLY

ACTIONABLE BY VERMONT AND THE

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.

BUT I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT

THESE ISSUES, IT IS RAISING

AWARENESS ABOUT SCAMS IS

ALWAYS THE BEST DEFENSE.

SHARING THESE STORIES,

BRINGING TRANSPARENCY INTO

THESE TRANSACTIONS, BECAUSE

PEOPLE WANT TO GIVE.

THEY WANT TO DO THE RIGHT

THING.

THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO MAKE

SURE THAT EITHER 75% OR 100%

IN SOME CASES OF THEIR MONEY

IS GOING TO THE PAID

FUNDRAISER AND NOT THE

CHARITY.

TRANSPARENCY AWARENESS IS

CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.

IN THE EGREGIOUS CASES WE HAVE

TOOLS CIVILLY AND CRIMINALLY

IF WE NEED THEM.

>> Darren: WHEN YOU LOOKED AT

THE LIST OF PAID FUNDRAISERS,

ANYTHING STAND OUT?

>> Cat: A LOT OF NATIONAL

ORGANIZATIONS DOING PAID

FUNDRAISING IN VERMONT.

CANCER SOCIETY, PLANNED

PARENTHOOD, KIDS WISH NETWORK,

DIFFERENT LAW ENFORCEMENT

FUNDS, ANIMAL ADVOCACY

ORGANIZATIONS, ET CETERA.

REALLY ALSO, DARREN, IT WAS A

LOT OF UNIVERSITIES ON THE

LIST.

I MEAN, SO MANY COLLEGES AND

UNIVERSITIES ON THAT LIST.

THAT STOOD OUT TO ME THE MOST.

YOU KNOW, IN A WAY, IT KIND OF

MAKES SENSE THAT THE NATIONAL

ORGANIZATIONS WOULD MORE USE

PAID FUND RAZE RAISERS IN

VERMONT, THEY DON'T HAVE THE

LOCAL PRESENCE TO DO THE

OUTREACH IN THE COMMUNITY THEY

WOULD NEED TO BE ABLE TO GET

DONATIONS.

THEY HAVE TO HIRE SOMEONE TO

DO THAT JOB.

>> Darren: FROM YOUR

PERSPECTIVE, ATTORNEY GENERAL,

IS THIS FRUSTRATING TO SEE HOW

LITTLE CAN ACTUALLY GO TO A

NON-PROFIT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S A CONVERSATION WE HAVE

TO HAVE IN OUR STATE, YOU

KNOW, AS PEOPLE BECOME MORE

AWARE OF THIS ISSUE, AND,

LOOK, I WANT TO BE CLEAR,

THERE ARE SOME LEGITIMATE PAID

FUNDRAISERS.

LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, AS WE SEE

IN ALL ASPECTS, IF THERE IS

ANY ROOM FOR PEOPLE TO RIP

PEOPLE OFF, PEOPLE TAKE

ADVANTAGE.

I THINK THIS IS A CONVERSATION

THAT PERHAPS WE HAVE TO HAVE

IN THE LEGISLATURE, IT IS A

CONVERSATION THAT PERHAPS YOU

HAVE TO HAVE AS CAT SAID, THIS

IS A NATIONAL -- THESE ARE

NATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS.

PERHAPS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL

TO MAKE SURE THERE ARE CAPS ON

THIS.

BECAUSE I THINK IF YOU ASK ANY

VERMONTER THAT GAVE MONEY AND

THEY LEARNED THAT EITHER HALF

OR A THIRD OR MORE, I MEAN,

THE FACT THAT 100% --

>> Cat: SOME SAID 1%.

THAT WAS A HUGE NUMBER ON THE

LIST THAT YOU HAVE ON YOUR

WEBSITE, A LOT OF THEM SAID 1%

IS GOING TO CHARITY.

YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT LIKE,

WHOA.

>> RIGHT.

I THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE, AND

YOU ARE GOING TO SEE MORE

SCRUTINY, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE

MORE CONVERSATIONS AT THE

LEGISLATIVE LEVEL TO SAY

SHOULD THERE BE MORE

REGULATION HERE TO MAKE SURE

VERMONTERS' MONEY IS GOING TO

THE PLACES THAT THEY INTENDED

IT TO GO.

NO VERMONTER INTENDED IT TO GO

TO THE PAID FUNDRAISER, THEY

INTENDED IT TO GO TO THE CHAIR

I.

>> Darren: ON THE BOOKS IS

THERE ANYTHING PAID

FUNDRAISERS CAN OR CANNOT DO?

>> IT IS GOVERNORSED BY

VERMONT, AND CONSUMERS,

CHARITIES, REGULATES THE

SYSTEM, BUT IT IS A DECEPTIVE

ACT WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT.

I AM NOT SURE GIVEN OUR

CURRENT STATE OF THE LAW THAT

IT WOULD QUALIFY AS THAT.

I THINK TRANSPARENCY AND

DISCLOSURE ARE INCREDIBLY

IMPORTANT.

I THINK GIVING PEOPLE,

VERMONTERS, THE INFORMATION IS

ALWAYS THE BEST APPROACH TO

DEALING WITH THESE ISSUES,

BECAUSE VERMONTERS ARE SMART,

THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE

DOING.

GIVE THEM THE INFORMATION,

THEY WILL MAKE THE RIGHT

DECISION.

AS WE SAID, CALL THE CHARITY

DIRECTLY.

THIS IS A SMALL STATE.

PEOPLE KNOW WHO THE CHARITIES

ARE AND WHO THE VOLUNTEERS

ARE, THEY CAN GET THE MONEY

DIRECTLY TO THE CHARITY.

>> T.J. DONOVAN, THANK YOU FOR

YOUR INVESTIGATION.

APPRECIATE THAT.

>> Darren: COMING UP NEXT,

CONGRESSMAN WELCH ON THE

IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS AND

MILITARY WIDOWS CONTINUE TO

FIGHT FOR ACTION ON BURN PITS

IN WAR ZONES.

YOU'RE WATCHING CHANNEL 3'S

"YOU CAN QUOTE ME," AND WE ARE

BACK IN A MOMENT.

>>> WAS THERE A QUID PRO QUO?

AS I TESTIFIED PREVIOUSLY WITH

REGARD TO THE REQUESTED WHITE

HOUSE CALL AND THE WHITE HOUSE

MEETING, THE ANSWER IS YES.

>> Darren: PRESIDENT TRUMP'S

HAND-PICKED AMBASSADOR TO THE

EUROPEAN UNION SENT SHOCKWAVES

ACROSS THE U.S. CAPITOL,

CHANGING HIS STORY AND

DIRECTLY IMPLICATING THE

PRESIDENT IN THE PRESSURE

CAMPAIGN AGAINST UKRAINE.

GORDON SONDLAND TOLD CONGRESS

THERE WAS A QUID PRO QUO, AN

ATTEMPT TO TRADE MILITARY

FUNDING FOR AN INVESTIGATION

OF MR. TRUMP'S RIVALS, AND IT

WAS DONE AT THE DIRECTION OF

THE PRESIDENT.

VERMONT CONGRESSMAN PETER

WELCH SITS ON THE HOUSE

INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE WHICH

HELD THE IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS.

WELCH ALSO RAISED CONCERNS

AFTER INFORMATION CAME OUT

THAT RUSSIAN SPIES LIKELY

INTERCEPTED THE AMBASSADOR'S

CALL WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP.

OUR WASHINGTON REPORTER KYLE

MIDURA CAUGHT UP WITH THE

CONGRESSMAN RIGHT AFTER THE

HEARING.

>> THE CALL FROM SONDLAND

WHERE HE WAS TALKING TO THE

PRESIDENT ON A NON-SECURE

PHONE IN A RESTAURANT, THE

RUSSIANS WERE LISTENING.

THEY HAD CLEARLY BECOME AWARE

THAT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS

WITHHOLDING AID, AND PRESIDENT

ZELENSKY IN A VERY COMPROMISED

POSITION WHEN HE HAD THE

RUSSIANS AT HIS BORDER AND

ACROSS HIS BORDER IN UKRAINE.

SO THE REAL NATIONAL SECURITY

IMPLICATIONS HERE, AND I FEEL

THAT THERE WAS A LOSS OF LIFE

THAT WAS RELATED TO THE FACT

THAT THE RUSSIANS REALLY HAD

INFORMATION, I SUSPECT, FROM

THE UNSECURED PHONE CALLS.

>> THE PRESIDENT YESTERDAY

SAID I DON'T WANT ANYTHING

FROM UKRAINE, I NEVER WANTED

ANYTHING FROM UKRAINE.

THE REPUBLICANS HAVE ARGUED,

LOOK, WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE WHO

TESTIFIED WHO HEARD IT

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S

MOUTH, SO TO SPEAK.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> SONDLAND HEARD IT, AND THE

FACT IS THE PRESIDENT SAID IT.

KEEP IN MIND, THIS ALL

STARTED, THIS WHOLE

INVESTIGATION STARTED WHEN

PEOPLE WHO WERE ON THE PHONE

CALL APPARENTLY TALKED TO THE

WHISTLEBLOWER.

THE WHISTLEBLOWER REPORT CAME

OUT.

THE PRESIDENT RELEASED THE

TRANSCRIPT OF THE CALL, AND IN

IT HE SAID HE WANTED A FAVOR.

AND THE FAVOR WAS CROWD STRIKE

HUNTER BIDEN AND VICE

PRESIDENT BIDEN.

HE WANTED THOSE

INVESTIGATIONS.

THAT'S DIRECT OUT OF THE MOUTH

OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED

STATES.

THE ULTIMATE QUESTION HERE IS

THE FACTS OF WHETHER WHAT HE

DID WAS USING PUBLIC OFFICE

FOR PRIVATE PERSONAL GAIN.

THERE'S OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE

THAT HE DID.

DAY DARE NORTH COUNTRY

CONGRESSMAN --

>> Darren: ELISE, WE ASKED THE

REPUBLICAN FOR AN INTERVIEW,

TOO, BUT SHE WAS UNAVAILABLE.

MORE THAN 3,000 VERMONT

MILITARY MEMBERS WERE CALLED

TO DUTY OVER THE YEARS TO

FIGHT THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR

IN IRAQ, AND AFGHANISTAN.

40 WITH VERMONT TIES WERE

KILLED IN COMBAT, DOZENS WERE

INJURED, AND HUNDREDS MORE

SUFFERED INVISIBLE WOUNDS,

LIKE POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS

DISORDER.

AND A CHANNEL 3 NEWS

INVESTIGATION UNCOVERED A NEW

BATTLE FOR VETS WHO MADE IT

HOME.

THE HEALTH CONSEQUENCES FROM

BURN PITS IN WAR ZONES.

THE BURN PITS ARE MASSIVE

OPEN-AIR TRASH FIRES BURNING

ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT.

SOLDIERS BREATHING IN THE

SMOKE THAT HUNG OVER THE

BASES.

IN THEM, EVERYTHING WAS

BURNED, TRASH, MEDICAL WASTE,

BODY PARTS, HUMAN WASTE,

METALS, TIRES.

THERE WERE NO LANDFILLS, NO

INFRASTRUCTURE TO DEAL WITH

WASTE IN THE MIDDLE OF

MAKESHIFT CITIES IN WAR ZONES.

IT'S GONE ON FOR YEARS WITH

THOUSANDS OF U.S. MILITARY

MEMBERS EXPOSED.

OF THE 19 PEOPLE IN THE

VERMONT MILITARY POLICE UNIT

ALONE, 3 GOT PROSTATE CANCER,

TWO DIED, INCLUDING SERGEANT

MAJOR MIKE CRAM.

SEVERAL HAVE EARLY SIGNS OF

CANCER.

OTHERS HAVE UNKNOWN ILLNESSES

AND GROWTHS DOCTORS HAVEN'T

SEEN BEFORE.

VERMONT ALSO LOST THE NUMBER

TWO AT THE VERMONT NATIONAL

GUARD, BRIGADIER MICHAEL

HESTON.

CHANNEL 3 NEWS SPOKE WITH THE

GENERAL SHORTLY BEFORE HE LOST

HIS BATTLE WITH CANCER.

HESTON TOLD US THE BURN PITS

CAUSED HIS CANCER, TOO.

>> AND THE WIVES OF BOTH MEN,

PAT CRAM AND JUNE HESTON, JOIN

ME NOW TO DISCUSS HOW THEY

CONTINUE TO FIGHT FOR

AWARENESS ABOUT THE BURN PITS,

AND TO RAISE MONEY FOR CANCER

ORGANIZATIONS.

GOOD MORNING TO BOTH OF YOU

>> GOOD MORNING.

>> GOOD MORNING.

>> Darren: LET'S TALK ABOUT

YOUR HUSBANDS, IN ADDITION TO

THEIR MILITARY SERVICE, BOTH

WERE INVOLVED IN LAW

ENFORCEMENT.

GIVE US A BACKGROUND.

>> MIKE STARTED WITH THE

MILTON POLICE DEPARTMENT, FROM

THERE HE FINISHED HIS CAREER

AT WINOOSKI AS A LIEUTENANT.

SO HE WAS PROBABLY 30 YEARS IN

LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> Darren: MICHAEL?

>> MY MIKE SERVED WITH THE

VERMONT STATE POLICE FOR 26

YEARS.

HE HAD A LONG CAREER WITH A

LOT OF DIFFERENT DUTIES DURING

THAT TIME.

>> Darren: AND BEFORE MIKE

CRAM PASSED, YOU FOLKS SET UP

THE 919 FOUNDATION.

TELL US THE SIGNIFICANCE, A,

OF THE NUMBER, AND WHAT THE

ORGANIZATION IS.

>> MIKE'S CALL NUMBER IN

WINOOSKI WAS 919, AND WHEN WE

REALIZED THAT HE WASN'T GOING

TO HAVE ANY MORE TREATMENTS,

WE CHOSE TO TAKE HIS LIFE

INSURANCE POLICY FROM THE

WINOOSKI PD AND START AN

ORGANIZATION AND WE CALLED IT

THE 919 FOUNDATION.

AND HE WAS VERY ADAMANT THAT

IT BE THE MONEY BE USED FOR

CANCER COMFORT.

HE HAD SEEN KIDS WHEN HE WAS

BEING TREATED.

THEY WERE SO-Y AND SO FULL OF

LIFE -- HAPPY, AND HE ADMIRED

THAT.

WE THOUGHT THAT WAS THE

PERFECT ORGANIZATION TO RAISE

MONEY FOR.

>> KIDS CAN JUST BE KIDS

THERE.

>> KIDS CAN BE KIDS AT CAMP.

>> YES.

FORGET ABOUT CANCER FOR A BIT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT ANOTHER

FUNDRAISER BY 14 STAR, THIS IS

A VETERAN-OWNED BREWERY IN ST.

ALBANS, THEY CAME OUT WITH A

919 CAN IN HONOR OF MIKE, AND

TO SUPPORT THE ORGANIZATION.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> YES.

WE PARTNERED WITH 14 STAR

ANDREA, AND HER BROTHER STEVE,

TO DO A FUNDRAISER, AND WE'RE

VERY CONSCIOUS OF THE DATES

THAT WE DO THINGS, SO WE

WANTED VETERAN'S DAY TO BE THE

LAUNCH.

IT WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL.

THE WEATHER WAS HORRIBLE, BUT

WE STILL GOT A REALLY GOOD

CREW TO COME OUT.

SGL AND THE MONEY FOR THAT

WILL GO TO CANCER CAMP.

>> YES.

SGL THIS PAST SUMMER A

MEMORIAL WALKWAY WAS SET UP AT

THE VETERANS CEMETERY IN HONOR

OF GENERAL HESTON.

TELL US ABOUT THAT, AND WHAT

DO YOU THINK HE WOULD THINK

ABOUT THAT?

FRJTS I THINK THAT HE WOULD --

>> I THINK THAT HE WOULD BE

TRULY HUMBLED.

HE WASN'T ONE FOR A LOT OF

ACCOLADES, BUT HE WOULD BE

VERY HONORED THAT THEY WOULD

NAME A WALKWAY FOR HIM AT THE

CEMETERY THAT HE OVERSAW FOR

SO MANY YEARS.

>> Darren: AND I KNOW THAT

THIS IS A DIFFICULT TIME

BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONE-YEAR

ANNIVERSARY.

FRJTS IT IS THE ONE-YEAR

ANNIVERSARY.

>> Darren: ARE YOU BOTH

CONVINCED STILL THAT THE BURN

PITS WERE THE CAUSE OF YOUR

HUSBANDS' DEATHS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> YES.

FOR MIKE IT HAS BEEN

CONFIRMED.

HE APPLIED FOR

SERVICE-CONNECTED DISABILITY

THROUGH THE DOD AND THROUGH

THE VA.

HE WAS DENIED THROUGH THE DOD,

BECAUSE YOU ONLY HAVE 180 DAYS

FROM QUALIFIED DUTY TO APPLY.

BUT HE DID RECEIVE

SERVICE-CONNECTED DISABILITY

FROM THE VA FOR HIS BURN PIT

EXPOSURE WHICH CAUSED CANCER.

>> Darren: PAT, YOU ARE STILL

FIGHTING FOR THIS.

>> WE ARE STILL FIGHTING.

OUR APPEAL RIGHT NOW IS THAT

VETERANS AFFAIRS IN

WASHINGTON, DC.

>> Darren: THERE HAS BEEN SOME

ACTION ON THIS AS WE'VE

REPORTED, VERMONT PASSED A

LAW, YOU KNOW, SMALL STEPS, IN

ACKNOWLEDGING THESE BURN PITS

COULD BE LIKELY CAUSING THESE

ILLNESSES.

THERE WAS A MOVE IN CONGRESS

TO GET THIS QUALIFIED AS A

DISABILITY.

CONGRESSMAN WELCH WON, PUSHING

THIS, PUSHING THIS.

IS ENOUGH BEING DONE?

I -- CONGRESSMAN WELCH IS ONE

PUSHING THIS.

IS THERE MORE DEVELOPMENT ON

THIS?

HE

>> THERE IS MORE.

CURRENTLY THERE'S 14 DIFFERENT

PIECES OF LEGISLATION BEING

PROPOSED FEDERALLY, AND NONE

OF IT HAS MOVED VERY QUICKLY,

BUT BECAUSE JON STEWART, WHO

HAS TAKEN ON THE FIGHT FOR THE

911 FIRST RESPONDERS WITH JOHN

P FEEL FROM THE FEEL GOOD

FOUNDATION, THEY WERE

SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING THAT

BENEFIT FOR THE FIRST

RESPONDERS EXTENDED TO 2092.

SO NOW THEY'VE JOINED THIS

FIGHT, BECAUSE IT IS

ESSENTIALLY THE SAME SORT OF

THING.

AND SO JON STEWART WENT TO

WASHINGTON, THERE WERE A GROUP

OF CONGRESSIONAL STAFF,

DSOAESHGS OTHER NON-PROFITS --

DSO'S, OTHER NON-PROFITS

FOCUSED ON BURN PIT EXPOSURE

AND OTHER TOXIC EXPOSURE, AND

WHAT IT WILL DO IS GET THE

GROUP TO COME TOGETHER AND

BUILD COMPREHENSIVE

LEGISLATION THAT MEETS

EVERYONE'S NEEDS, AND THE GOAL

IN THE END, ONCE THIS IS

WRITTEN, IS TO PROPOSE IT IN

SEPTEMBER, BUT TO HAVE IT,

THAT IT WOULD BE PRESUMPTIVE,

THAT IF YOU SERVED ANY TIME IN

9/11, YOU WERE EXPOSED.

IF IT WASN'T BURN PITS, AT

WHAT TIME CHEMICALS YOUR

UNIFORMS WERE SOAKED IN, OR IT

WAS THE MEDICATION YOU WERE

GIVEN FORMAL AREA.

THERE WERE A -- FOR MALARIA.

A LOT OF INCIDENCE TO BEING

EXPOSED TO TOXINS WHILE

SERVING OVERSEAS.

>> Darren: THANK YOU FOR YOUR

TIME, YOUR HUSBAND'S SERVICE

AND YOUR SERVICE AS WOMEN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR WATCHING,

EVERYBODY.

HAVE A GOOD DAY.

Captioning provided by

Caption Associates, LLC

captionassociates.com

Captioning provided by

Caption Associates, LLC

captionassociates.com

>> Darren: AND GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE,

I'M DARREN PERRON.

ON CHANNEL 3, "YOU CAN QUOTE

ME," CONGRESSMAN WELCH

RESPONDS TO BOMBSHELL

TESTIMONY DURING THE

IMPEACHMENT HEARING.

ALSO, THE WIVES OF TWO MEN WHO

LIKELY DIED FROM EXPOSURE TO

BURN PITS IN WAR ZONES JOIN ME

TO DISCUSS HOW THEY ARE

RAISING AWARENESS, MONEY FOR

CANCER CAUSES, AND HONORING

THEIR HUSBAND'S MEMORIES.

PLUS, SPOTTING SCAMS AROUND

THE HOLIDAYS.

WE DID THE DIGGING SO YOU CAN

BE SURE YOUR DONATIONS GO TO

LEGITIMATE CHARITIES.

AND WE FOLLOWED THE MONEY IN

VERMONT.

AND THAT'S WHERE WE BEGIN THIS

MORNING.

WHEN IT COMES TO COLLECTING

CASH, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT

YOUR MONEY IS ACTUALLY GOING

TO THE CAUSE YOU WANT TO

SUPPORT?

OUR INVESTIGATION REVEALED

PAID FUNDRAISERS FOR-PROFIT

COMPANIES THAT ARE HIRED BY

CHARITIES TO RAISE MONEY BY

PHONE CALLS OR MAILINGS ARE

LOOSELY REGULATED.

THEY CAN KEEP UP TO 100% OF

DONATED MONEY.

WE DISCOVERED MILLIONS OF

DOLLARS AMERICANS DONATE TO

GOOD CAUSES NEVER GET TO THE

PROGRAMS THEMSELVES, AND

INSTEAD PAY FOR THE

FUNDRAISING.

CAT VIGLIENZONI JOINS US LIVE

IN THE STUDIO WITH WHAT SHE

LEARNED ABOUT FUNDRAISING

TACTICS IN VERMONT.

CAT VIGLIENZONI TO BE CLEAR,

THIS IS NOT TO DISCOURAGE YOU

FROM DONATING, MERELY TO MAKE

SURE YOUR CHARITY OF CHOICE

GETS TO KEEP AS MUCH OF YOUR

DONATION AS POSSIBLE.

FORTUNATELY VERMONT MADE THAT

INFORMATION EASY TO FIND OUT,

UNLIKE OTHER STATES, VERMONT

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE

TRACKS IN DETAIL WHO HAS BEEN

PAID FOR RAISE MONEY HERE AND

HOW MUCH IS GOING TO CHAIR I.

THE GOAL WITH THIS DATABASE IS

TO HELP YOU MAKE INFORMED

DECISIONS WHERE YOU GIVE YOUR

MONEY.

I SPOKE TO LOCAL CHARITIES FOR

FIND OUT WHEN THEY WOULD DO

THE FUNDRAISING THEMSELVES AND

WHEN THEY WOULD HIRE

PROFESSIONALS.

700 ENVELOPES.

>> WE DID 3,000 THE LAST ONE.

>> Cat: STAFF AND VOLUNTEERS

EXTENT -- EXTENT SPENT AN

EVENING SEALING LETTERS TO

POTENTIAL DONORS.

NON-PROFIT MAKES SURE THEY GET

THE MOST BANG FOR THEIR BUCK

BY DOING ALMOST ALL THEIR

OUTREACH IN-HOUSE.

>> WE SAVE SO MUCH MONEY BY

DOING MORE OF THE WORK HERE.

IT IS REALLY JUST PAPER AND

PRINTING, AND OUR TIME THAT IT

IS KIND OF FUN, TOO.

>> Cat: FUNDRAISING IS THE

BREAD AND BUTTER.

THREE QUARTERS OF ANNUAL

REVENUE COMES FROM CHARITY

SUPPORT.

PEOPLE WHO SEE ANIMALS LIKE

MOLLY AND WANT TO FIND THEM

FOREVER HOMES.

MOST PEOPLE GIVE DURING THE

HOLIDAY SEASON.

RIGHT NOW THEY ARE GETTING

THEIR NAME IN FRONT OF EYES

AND WALLETS TO COMPETE FOR

DONATION DOLLARS.

>> THIS MAILING IS SO

SUPPORTERS, HIGHLIGHTING ALL

THE AMAZING THINGS WE DO WITH

THE DONATION, HOPEFULLY

ENCOURAGING THEM TO GIVE

AGAIN.

>> WE WANT EVERY DOLLAR TO

COUNT.

WE WANT EVERY VERMONTER IN

NEED TO BE SERVED.

>> CHRIS CURTIS IS THE CHIEF

OF THE PUBLIC PROTECTION SDI

DIVISION OF THE VERMONT

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, IN

CHARGE OF MAKING SURE YOU KNOW

WHERE YOUR MONEY IS REALLY

GOING.

>> SOME OF THEM THEY DIDN'T

RAISE ANYTHING, SO THERE WAS

NOTHING PAID.

>> Cat: HE SHOWS US THIS

DATABASE, WHICH TRACKS PAID

FUNDRAISERS, COMPANIES HIRED

TO BRING IN DONATIONS.

IT SHOWS YOU HOW MUCH OF YOUR

MONEY IS GUARANTEED TO GO TO

THE CHARITY, AND HOW MUCH

ACTUALLY DID.

>> VERMONTERS CAN LOOK AT THAT

FOR THEMSELVES AND MAKE A

DETERMINATION WHETHER OR IF

THEY WANT TO GIVE, OR GIVE TO

THE ORGANIZATION DIRECTLY, AND

BYPASS THE PAID FUNDRAISING

OPERATION.

>> Cat: PAID FUNDRAISING IS

LEGAL AND LEGITIMATE, BUT ONE

TREND CURTIS SAID HE NOTICES

WHEN HE LOOKS AT THEIR DATA

IS, THERE ARE FEWER OF THEM.

THERE'S BEEN A 60% DROP JUST

IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS.

OF THE 14 PAID FUNDRAISING

COMPANIES REGISTERED HERE NOW,

ALMOST ALL OF THEIR 108

CAMPAIGNS ARE FOR NATIONAL

ORGANIZATIONS.

>> PEOPLE HAVE LEARNED THAT

THEY CAN DO THIS BETTER FOR

THEMSELVES USING A GREAT

DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR AS PART

OF THEIR TEAM AND NOT HAVE TO

HIRE OUT OF HOUSE.

>> Cat: BUT WE DID SEE A FEW

LOCAL NON-PROFITS ON THE LIST.

INCLUDING THE VERMONT POLICE

K-9 ASSOCIATION, THE

UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT MEDICAL

CENTER, VERMONT PBS, AND

SPECIAL OLYMPICS VERMONT.

>> THERE ARE A LOT OF

COMPETING DEMANDS FOR DOLLARS,

EVEN WITHIN THE SPECIAL

OLYMPICS MOVEMENT.

>> Cat: SPECIAL OLYMPICS

VERMONT CEO SAYS THEIR MISSION

CENTERS ON INCLUSIVITY, FROM

ATHLETE EMPLOYMENT TO UNIFIED

SPORTS TEAMS, TO OTHER EFFORTS

THAT ENRICH THE LIVES OF

PEOPLE WITH AND WITHOUT

INTELLECTUAL DISABILITIES.

BUT THOSE PROGRAMS COME AT A

COST.

THEY HAVE TO RAISE ALMOST

EVERY DOLLAR IN THEIR $1.3

MILLION BUDGET.

[ CHEERING ]

THE PENGUIN PLUNGE BRINGS IN A

FRIGID 40% OF THAT.

BUT ABOUT 20 TO 25% COMES IN

DURING THE GIVING SEASON.

RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE REACHING

OUT TO DONORS THROUGH

MAILINGS, PHONE CALLS, AND

MORE.

SOME HAPPENS FROM THEIR SOUTH

BURLINGTON OFFICE; OTHERS

THROUGH A NATIONAL CAMPAIGN.

>> I THINK BOTH ARE EFFECTIVE.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE KNOW

ABOUT ASKING AND GIVING IS

THAT IT TAKES MULTIPLE TRIES

IN MULTIPLE DIFFERENT WAYS.

>> Cat: BUT HIRING

PROFESSIONALS COMES AT A COST.

AND WE SAW THE AMOUNT OF PAID

FUNDRAISING COMPANY KEPT

VARIED WIDELY.

DIAL AMERICA MARKETING

INCORPORATED PROMISED AND GAVE

JUST 10% OF THE 18,000 THEY

RAISED IN A YEAR.

HERITAGE COMPANY INCORPORATED

COLLECTED ABOUT 75,000 OVER

THREE YEARS.

50 TO 70% OF THAT WENT TO

CHAIR I.

>> ON YOUR MARK, SET.

>> TO KEEP ALL YOUR MONEY

HELPING ATHLETES, SEE SAYS

REACH OUT AT THEIR OFFICE

DIRECTLY, OR CONTRIBUTE TO ONE

OF THEIR EVENTS LIKE THE

PLUNGE.

THEY GET TO KEEP ALL OF WHAT

THEY RAISE THERE.

>> WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR EVERY

DOLLAR, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,

EACH ONE MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

>> Cat: HOW DO YOU KNOW IF

YOU'RE DEALING WITH A

NON-PROFIT DIRECTLY OR WITH A

PAID FUNDRAISER?

CURTIS SAID IF YOU ARE ON THE

PHONE, JUST ASK.

AND ALSO, ASK HOW MUCH OF YOUR

DONATION IS GOING TO THE

CHARITY ITSELF.

IT IS A RED FLAG IF THEY CAN'T

OR WON'T TELL YOU.

AND ALSO, CALL THE NON-PROFIT

DIRECTLY AND JUST ASK IF THEY

ARE FUNDRAISING.

ALSO MAKE SURE YOU AREN'T

GETTING SCAMMED BY A FAKE

FUNDRAISER.

THEY ARE OUT THERE.

DARREN?

>> Darren: THANK YOU.

STAND BY.

NEXT WE'LL DIG DEEPER INTO HOW

YOU CAN AVOID THOSE SCAMS,

PLUS, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

JOINS US WITH SOME ADVICE AS

WELL.

AND LATER, MILITARY BURN PITS

MAKING SOLDIERS SICK.

STILL AHEAD, THE WIVES OF TWO

VERMONTERS WHO DIED JOIN US,

HOPING CONTINUED AWARENESS

WILL SAVE LIVES.

DON'T GO AWAY.

WHILE SOME OF THE SHAM

CHARITIES THAT CLAIM TO HELP

VETERANS OR FIRST RESPONDERS

HAVE BEEN SHUT DOWN OVER THE

PAST COUPLE YEARS, THE PAID

FUNDRAISING COMPANIES THAT

RAISE MONEY FOR THEM ARE STILL

ACTIVE.

AND STILL COLLECTING MONEY.

IN THE NAME OF VETERANS,

POLICE AND FIREFIGHTERS.

CAT VIGLIENZONI JOINS US AGAIN

WITH WHAT YOU NEED TO ASK TO

MAKE SURE YOUR MONEY GETS TO A

LEGITIMATE CHAIR I.

>> Cat: IT'S TRICKY.

YOU ARE FACED WITH A CALLER OR

FLYER IN THE MAIL TUGGING AT

YOUR HEARTSTRINGS.

THEY TELL YOU THAT HELPING

VETERANS, POLICE, KIDS OR

ANIMALS.

THEY WANT YOU TO GIVE YOUR

MONEY TO HELP.

THAT'S ALL WELL AND GOOD, IF

THE CHARITY IS LEGIT.

>> YOU ALWAYS WANT TO BE

CAREFUL.

>> Cat: CHRIS CURTIS WITH THE

PUBLIC PROTECTION DIVISION OF

THE VERMONT ATTORNEY GENERAL'S

OFFICE SAID WHILE YOU SHOULD

EXPECT TO GET SOME KIND OF

LETTER OR CARD, EVEN A PHONE

CALL DURING THE NEXT COUPLE

MONTHS, YOU SHOULD NOT ASSUME

THAT JUST BECAUSE IT'S A

PROFESSIONAL PAMPHLET, OR A

GOOD SALES PITCH, THAT IT'S

LEGITIMATE.

OR EVEN THAT IT IS ACTUALLY

REPRESENTING THE CHARITY IT

SATISFIES IT IS.

>> THERE CAN BE IMPOSTER

SCAMS, WHERE SOMEBODY IS

IMPERSONATING A NON-PROFIT

ORGANIZATION.

>> Cat: THE BEST WAY TO AVOID

PARTING WITH YOUR MONEY TO A

SCAMMER?

DO A LITTLE DIGGING.

ASK QUESTIONS LIKE WHO THE

PERSON IS, WHAT THE CHARITY

IS, WHERE IT'S LOCATED, HOW

YOUR DONATION WILL BE USED,

AND IF THEY ARE A PAID

FUNDRAISER.

THEN DOUBLE CHECK THAT

INFORMATION YOURSELF.

BE WARY OF ANYONE WHO

PRESSURES YOU INTO GIVING

MONEY RIGHT AWAY, ESPECIALLY

THROUGH CASH MAILINGS OR WIRE

TRANSFERS.

IF YOU GET A LETTER THANKING

YOU FOR A DONATION YOU ALREADY

MADE, AND YOU KNOW YOU DIDN'T,

IT IS ALMOST CERTAINLY A SCAM,

AND BE EXTRA CAREFUL WITH

EMAILS ASKING YOU FOR MONEY

BECAUSE THEY MIGHT NOT BE

SAFE.

THE BEST WAY TO AVOID SCAMMERS

IS TO REACH OUT TO YOUR

CHARITY OF CHOICE DIRECTLY AND

ASK HOW YOU CAN SEND THEM

MONEY.

>> REALLY, CALL AND VERIFY AND

AUTHENTICATE THE NON-PROFITS

YOU ARE GIVING TO.

THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE THING.

>> Cat: NON-PROFITS WE SPOKE

WITH AGREE.

SPECIAL OLYMPICS VERMONT SAID

THEY ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO

TAKE YOUR CALLS AND TALK TO

YOU ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY

OFFER AND WHERE YOUR DONATION

WILL BE USED.

>> BEING REALLY CLEAR AND

EXPLICIT ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT WE

DO IS HUGE.

>> Cat: AT THE HUMANE SOCIETY

OF CHITTENDEN COUNTY, IF YOU

REACH OUT TO THEM DIRECTLY,

YOU GET A PERSONAL RESPONSE

BACK.

>> PERSONALLY I SIGN AND WRITE

LETTERS TO EVERY PERSON WHO

MAKES A GIFT OF ANY AMOUNT.

THERE IS NO GIFT TOO SMALL.

>> Darren: CAT JOINS ME NOW

ALONG WITH THE ATTORNEY

GENERAL, T.J. DONOVAN.

GOOD MORNING TO BOTH OF YOU.

>> Cat: GOOD MORNING.

>> Darren: LET'S START WITH

WHAT IS AVAILABLE FOR

RESOURCES FROM YOUR OFFICE, SO

THAT FOLKS CAN LOOK TO SEE IF

THEY ARE BEING SCAMMED.

>> SURE.

THE FIRST THING PEOPLE SHOULD

DO IS GO TO AGOVERMONT.GOV, SO

THEY CAN ACCESS THE REPORT

THAT CAT CHRONICD ABOUT WHO

THE PAID FUNDRAISERS ARE.

THE NEXT TOOL AVAILABLE IS

KNOWLEDGE, AND THAT MEANS

ASKING QUESTIONS.

WHEN YOU GET THAT CALL OR YOU

GET THAT SOLICITATION, ASK THE

QUESTION.

ARE YOU A PAID FUND RAISER?

THE SECOND FOLLOW-UP QUESTION

IS THIS: WHAT ARE YOU TAKING,

WHAT IS THE PERCENT?

IF THEY DON'T TELL YOU THAT,

ASK US, BECAUSE I THINK

VERMONTERS ARE GENEROUS, THEY

GIVE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, BUT

ESPECIALLY OVER THE HOLIDAYS,

AND THEY EXPECT THAT THEIR

MONEY IS GOING TO THE CHARITY

TO ADDRESS THE CAUSE THEY

BELIEVE IN, NOT TO A PAID

FUNDRAISER.

>> Darren: YOU MENTIONED TO ME

WHILE WE WERE CHATTING THERE

ARE OTHER RESOURCES, TOO.

>> Cat: COUPLE QUESTIONS I GOT

WERE FROM PEOPLE WHO LIVE

OUTSIDE OF VERMONT AND WANTED

TO KNOW WHAT KIND OF RESOURCES

WERE AVAILABLE ON A NATIONAL

LEVEL.

THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU HAS

A CHARITY SECTION, ALSO

CHARITY NAVIGATOR, A PRETTY

GOOD WEBSITE, TOO, ESPECIALLY

DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, IF YOU

ARE OUT OF STATE AND DEALING

WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

>> Darren: ATTORNEY GENERAL,

WHAT ARE THE MOST COMMON SCAMS

YOUR OFFICE HEARS ABOUT DURING

THE HOLIDAY SEASON?

>> WELL, THE MOST COMMON SCAM

THAT WE SEE YEAR-ROUND IS

GOING TO BE THE IRS SCAM.

AND ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO

PULL ON PEOPLE'S HEARTSTRINGS,

WHETHER IT'S ABOUT CHILDREN,

WHETHER IT'S ABOUT MILITARY

VETERANS, WHETHER IT'S BEEN

ANIMALS, CERTAINLY YOU ARE

GOING TO SEE THAT, OVER THE

HOLIDAYS.

AND I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD JUST

BE CAREFUL.

OF COURSE WE WANT PEOPLE TO

GIVE, AND VERMONTERS BY AND

LARGE ARE AN INCREDIBLY

GENEROUS GROUP.

LET'S JUST ASK THE QUESTION, I

THINK, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND

CHARITIES UTILIZING PAID

FUNDRAISERS, BUT WE ARE A

SMALL STATE.

IT IS A CALL TO ACTION FOR

VERMONTERS TO VOLUNTEER THEIR

TIME TO PUT THOSE STAMPS ON

THE ENVELOPES AND DO THOSE

PHONATHONS THEMSELVES, BECAUSE

THAT'S HOW MOST LOCAL

CHARITIES OPERATE IN THE

STATE.

I THINK WE ARE PRETTY LUCKY.

>> Darren: CAT, DURING YOUR

INVESTIGATION DID ANY OF THESE

NON-PROFITS REVEAL HOW THEY

ARE MOVING AWAY FROM PAID

FUNDRAISING?

>> Cat: RIGHT.

CHRIS CURTIS MENTIONED ONE OF

THEM, HAVING A GOOD

DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR ON STAFF,

WHO CAN DEAL WITH, YOU KNOW,

BOTH THE FUNDRAISING ASPECT,

ALSO THEY MIGHT DEAL WITH YOUR

SOCIAL MEDIA PREPS AS WELL.

THAT'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING

WE -- PRESENCE AS WELL.

WE HEARD FROM NON-PROFITS,

STARTING TO LEVERAGE SOCIAL

MEDIA TO GET THE WORD OUT TO

PEOPLE WHO ALREADY EXPRESSED

AN INTEREST IN THEIR MISSION

AND IN WHAT THEY DO.

ALSO, YOU KNOW, YOU SAW THIS

AT THE HUMANE SOCIETY, GETTING

VOLUNTEERS BOARD TO STUFF

ANIMALS, OR MAYBE MAKING A

PHONE CALL, OR TALKING TO

THEIR FRIENDS.

WE'VE SEEN A LOT MORE OF THESE

EVENTS POPPING UP, TOO.

WE HAVE THE PLUNGE, THE BIG

ONE FOR SPECIAL OLYMPICS

VERMONT, HUMANE SOCIETY HAS

SEVERAL THROUGHOUT THE YEAR,

SEVERAL WALKS, PURSES FOR PAWS

COMING UP AT THE BEGINNING OF

NEXT YEAR.

AND THOSE ARE ALWAYS TO GET

PEOPLE INTERACTIVE WITH THE

CHARITY, AND ENGAGING, BECAUSE

ONE THING I DID HEAR FROM

SPECIAL OLYMPICS VERMONT, MANY

OF THEIR DONORS ACTUALLY START

AS VOLUNTEERS.

SO YOU GET PEOPLE IN THAT WAY,

AND THROUGH EVENTS THAT CAN

CAUSE THEM TO, YOU KNOW,

REALLY GET INVOLVED WITH YOUR

CHARITY IN A BIGGER WAY.

ALSO, PEOPLE ARE RAISING

MONEY, IT IS EASIER FOR PEOPLE

TO ASK THEIR OPEN FRIENDS FOR

MONEY AS OPPOSED TO YOU HAVING

TO MAKE THE EXTRA CONNECTION.

>> Darren: SURE.

WHAT ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WHAT CAN YOUR OFFICE DO ABOUT

GOING AFTER THESE PEOPLE?

THE COURT: THERE'S A COUPLE

THINGS --

>>>.

>> IT CAN BE CRIMINAL OR

CIVIL.

YOU HAVE CRIMINAL PENALTIES.

UNDER A CONSUMER PROTECTION

LAW, ANYBODY THAT IS ACTING IN

WHAT WE CALL AN UNFAIR OR

DECEPTIVE ACT IS CERTAINLY

ACTIONABLE BY VERMONT AND THE

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.

BUT I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT

THESE ISSUES, IT IS RAISING

AWARENESS ABOUT SCAMS IS

ALWAYS THE BEST DEFENSE.

SHARING THESE STORIES,

BRINGING TRANSPARENCY INTO

THESE TRANSACTIONS, BECAUSE

PEOPLE WANT TO GIVE.

THEY WANT TO DO THE RIGHT

THING.

THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO MAKE

SURE THAT EITHER 75% OR 100%

IN SOME CASES OF THEIR MONEY

IS GOING TO THE PAID

FUNDRAISER AND NOT THE

CHARITY.

TRANSPARENCY AWARENESS IS

CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.

IN THE EGREGIOUS CASES WE HAVE

TOOLS CIVILLY AND CRIMINALLY

IF WE NEED THEM.

>> Darren: WHEN YOU LOOKED AT

THE LIST OF PAID FUNDRAISERS,

ANYTHING STAND OUT?

>> Cat: A LOT OF NATIONAL

ORGANIZATIONS DOING PAID

FUNDRAISING IN VERMONT.

CANCER SOCIETY, PLANNED

PARENTHOOD, KIDS WISH NETWORK,

DIFFERENT LAW ENFORCEMENT

FUNDS, ANIMAL ADVOCACY

ORGANIZATIONS, ET CETERA.

REALLY ALSO, DARREN, IT WAS A

LOT OF UNIVERSITIES ON THE

LIST.

I MEAN, SO MANY COLLEGES AND

UNIVERSITIES ON THAT LIST.

THAT STOOD OUT TO ME THE MOST.

YOU KNOW, IN A WAY, IT KIND OF

MAKES SENSE THAT THE NATIONAL

ORGANIZATIONS WOULD MORE USE

PAID FUND RAZE RAISERS IN

VERMONT, THEY DON'T HAVE THE

LOCAL PRESENCE TO DO THE

OUTREACH IN THE COMMUNITY THEY

WOULD NEED TO BE ABLE TO GET

DONATIONS.

THEY HAVE TO HIRE SOMEONE TO

DO THAT JOB.

>> Darren: FROM YOUR

PERSPECTIVE, ATTORNEY GENERAL,

IS THIS FRUSTRATING TO SEE HOW

LITTLE CAN ACTUALLY GO TO A

NON-PROFIT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S A CONVERSATION WE HAVE

TO HAVE IN OUR STATE, YOU

KNOW, AS PEOPLE BECOME MORE

AWARE OF THIS ISSUE, AND,

LOOK, I WANT TO BE CLEAR,

THERE ARE SOME LEGITIMATE PAID

FUNDRAISERS.

LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, AS WE SEE

IN ALL ASPECTS, IF THERE IS

ANY ROOM FOR PEOPLE TO RIP

PEOPLE OFF, PEOPLE TAKE

ADVANTAGE.

I THINK THIS IS A CONVERSATION

THAT PERHAPS WE HAVE TO HAVE

IN THE LEGISLATURE, IT IS A

CONVERSATION THAT PERHAPS YOU

HAVE TO HAVE AS CAT SAID, THIS

IS A NATIONAL -- THESE ARE

NATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS.

PERHAPS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL

TO MAKE SURE THERE ARE CAPS ON

THIS.

BECAUSE I THINK IF YOU ASK ANY

VERMONTER THAT GAVE MONEY AND

THEY LEARNED THAT EITHER HALF

OR A THIRD OR MORE, I MEAN,

THE FACT THAT 100% --

>> Cat: SOME SAID 1%.

THAT WAS A HUGE NUMBER ON THE

LIST THAT YOU HAVE ON YOUR

WEBSITE, A LOT OF THEM SAID 1%

IS GOING TO CHARITY.

YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT LIKE,

WHOA.

>> RIGHT.

I THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE, AND

YOU ARE GOING TO SEE MORE

SCRUTINY, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE

MORE CONVERSATIONS AT THE

LEGISLATIVE LEVEL TO SAY

SHOULD THERE BE MORE

REGULATION HERE TO MAKE SURE

VERMONTERS' MONEY IS GOING TO

THE PLACES THAT THEY INTENDED

IT TO GO.

NO VERMONTER INTENDED IT TO GO

TO THE PAID FUNDRAISER, THEY

INTENDED IT TO GO TO THE CHAIR

I.

>> Darren: ON THE BOOKS IS

THERE ANYTHING PAID

FUNDRAISERS CAN OR CANNOT DO?

>> IT IS GOVERNORSED BY

VERMONT, AND CONSUMERS,

CHARITIES, REGULATES THE

SYSTEM, BUT IT IS A DECEPTIVE

ACT WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT.

I AM NOT SURE GIVEN OUR

CURRENT STATE OF THE LAW THAT

IT WOULD QUALIFY AS THAT.

I THINK TRANSPARENCY AND

DISCLOSURE ARE INCREDIBLY

IMPORTANT.

I THINK GIVING PEOPLE,

VERMONTERS, THE INFORMATION IS

ALWAYS THE BEST APPROACH TO

DEALING WITH THESE ISSUES,

BECAUSE VERMONTERS ARE SMART,

THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE

DOING.

GIVE THEM THE INFORMATION,

THEY WILL MAKE THE RIGHT

DECISION.

AS WE SAID, CALL THE CHARITY

DIRECTLY.

THIS IS A SMALL STATE.

PEOPLE KNOW WHO THE CHARITIES

ARE AND WHO THE VOLUNTEERS

ARE, THEY CAN GET THE MONEY

DIRECTLY TO THE CHARITY.

>> T.J. DONOVAN, THANK YOU FOR

YOUR INVESTIGATION.

APPRECIATE THAT.

>> Darren: COMING UP NEXT,

CONGRESSMAN WELCH ON THE

IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS AND

MILITARY WIDOWS CONTINUE TO

FIGHT FOR ACTION ON BURN PITS

IN WAR ZONES.

YOU'RE WATCHING CHANNEL 3'S

"YOU CAN QUOTE ME," AND WE ARE

BACK IN A MOMENT.

>>> WAS THERE A QUID PRO QUO?

AS I TESTIFIED PREVIOUSLY WITH

REGARD TO THE REQUESTED WHITE

HOUSE CALL AND THE WHITE HOUSE

MEETING, THE ANSWER IS YES.

>> Darren: PRESIDENT TRUMP'S

HAND-PICKED AMBASSADOR TO THE

EUROPEAN UNION SENT SHOCKWAVES

ACROSS THE U.S. CAPITOL,

CHANGING HIS STORY AND

DIRECTLY IMPLICATING THE

PRESIDENT IN THE PRESSURE

CAMPAIGN AGAINST UKRAINE.

GORDON SONDLAND TOLD CONGRESS

THERE WAS A QUID PRO QUO, AN

ATTEMPT TO TRADE MILITARY

FUNDING FOR AN INVESTIGATION

OF MR. TRUMP'S RIVALS, AND IT

WAS DONE AT THE DIRECTION OF

THE PRESIDENT.

VERMONT CONGRESSMAN PETER

WELCH SITS ON THE HOUSE

INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE WHICH

HELD THE IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS.

WELCH ALSO RAISED CONCERNS

AFTER INFORMATION CAME OUT

THAT RUSSIAN SPIES LIKELY

INTERCEPTED THE AMBASSADOR'S

CALL WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP.

OUR WASHINGTON REPORTER KYLE

MIDURA CAUGHT UP WITH THE

CONGRESSMAN RIGHT AFTER THE

HEARING.

>> THE CALL FROM SONDLAND

WHERE HE WAS TALKING TO THE

PRESIDENT ON A NON-SECURE

PHONE IN A RESTAURANT, THE

RUSSIANS WERE LISTENING.

THEY HAD CLEARLY BECOME AWARE

THAT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS

WITHHOLDING AID, AND PRESIDENT

ZELENSKY IN A VERY COMPROMISED

POSITION WHEN HE HAD THE

RUSSIANS AT HIS BORDER AND

ACROSS HIS BORDER IN UKRAINE.

SO THE REAL NATIONAL SECURITY

IMPLICATIONS HERE, AND I FEEL

THAT THERE WAS A LOSS OF LIFE

THAT WAS RELATED TO THE FACT

THAT THE RUSSIANS REALLY HAD

INFORMATION, I SUSPECT, FROM

THE UNSECURED PHONE CALLS.

>> THE PRESIDENT YESTERDAY

SAID I DON'T WANT ANYTHING

FROM UKRAINE, I NEVER WANTED

ANYTHING FROM UKRAINE.

THE REPUBLICANS HAVE ARGUED,

LOOK, WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE WHO

TESTIFIED WHO HEARD IT

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S

MOUTH, SO TO SPEAK.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> SONDLAND HEARD IT, AND THE

FACT IS THE PRESIDENT SAID IT.

KEEP IN MIND, THIS ALL

STARTED, THIS WHOLE

INVESTIGATION STARTED WHEN

PEOPLE WHO WERE ON THE PHONE

CALL APPARENTLY TALKED TO THE

WHISTLEBLOWER.

THE WHISTLEBLOWER REPORT CAME

OUT.

THE PRESIDENT RELEASED THE

TRANSCRIPT OF THE CALL, AND IN

IT HE SAID HE WANTED A FAVOR.

AND THE FAVOR WAS CROWD STRIKE

HUNTER BIDEN AND VICE

PRESIDENT BIDEN.

HE WANTED THOSE

INVESTIGATIONS.

THAT'S DIRECT OUT OF THE MOUTH

OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED

STATES.

THE ULTIMATE QUESTION HERE IS

THE FACTS OF WHETHER WHAT HE

DID WAS USING PUBLIC OFFICE

FOR PRIVATE PERSONAL GAIN.

THERE'S OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE

THAT HE DID.

DAY DARE NORTH COUNTRY

CONGRESSMAN --

>> Darren: ELISE, WE ASKED THE

REPUBLICAN FOR AN INTERVIEW,

TOO, BUT SHE WAS UNAVAILABLE.

MORE THAN 3,000 VERMONT

MILITARY MEMBERS WERE CALLED

TO DUTY OVER THE YEARS TO

FIGHT THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR

IN IRAQ, AND AFGHANISTAN.

40 WITH VERMONT TIES WERE

KILLED IN COMBAT, DOZENS WERE

INJURED, AND HUNDREDS MORE

SUFFERED INVISIBLE WOUNDS,

LIKE POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS

DISORDER.

AND A CHANNEL 3 NEWS

INVESTIGATION UNCOVERED A NEW

BATTLE FOR VETS WHO MADE IT

HOME.

THE HEALTH CONSEQUENCES FROM

BURN PITS IN WAR ZONES.

THE BURN PITS ARE MASSIVE

OPEN-AIR TRASH FIRES BURNING

ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT.

SOLDIERS BREATHING IN THE

SMOKE THAT HUNG OVER THE

BASES.

IN THEM, EVERYTHING WAS

BURNED, TRASH, MEDICAL WASTE,

BODY PARTS, HUMAN WASTE,

METALS, TIRES.

THERE WERE NO LANDFILLS, NO

INFRASTRUCTURE TO DEAL WITH

WASTE IN THE MIDDLE OF

MAKESHIFT CITIES IN WAR ZONES.

IT'S GONE ON FOR YEARS WITH

THOUSANDS OF U.S. MILITARY

MEMBERS EXPOSED.

OF THE 19 PEOPLE IN THE

VERMONT MILITARY POLICE UNIT

ALONE, 3 GOT PROSTATE CANCER,

TWO DIED, INCLUDING SERGEANT

MAJOR MIKE CRAM.

SEVERAL HAVE EARLY SIGNS OF

CANCER.

OTHERS HAVE UNKNOWN ILLNESSES

AND GROWTHS DOCTORS HAVEN'T

SEEN BEFORE.

VERMONT ALSO LOST THE NUMBER

TWO AT THE VERMONT NATIONAL

GUARD, BRIGADIER MICHAEL

HESTON.

CHANNEL 3 NEWS SPOKE WITH THE

GENERAL SHORTLY BEFORE HE LOST

HIS BATTLE WITH CANCER.

HESTON TOLD US THE BURN PITS

CAUSED HIS CANCER, TOO.

>> AND THE WIVES OF BOTH MEN,

PAT CRAM AND JUNE HESTON, JOIN

ME NOW TO DISCUSS HOW THEY

CONTINUE TO FIGHT FOR

AWARENESS ABOUT THE BURN PITS,

AND TO RAISE MONEY FOR CANCER

ORGANIZATIONS.

GOOD MORNING TO BOTH OF YOU

>> GOOD MORNING.

>> GOOD MORNING.

>> Darren: LET'S TALK ABOUT

YOUR HUSBANDS, IN ADDITION TO

THEIR MILITARY SERVICE, BOTH

WERE INVOLVED IN LAW

ENFORCEMENT.

GIVE US A BACKGROUND.

>> MIKE STARTED WITH THE

MILTON POLICE DEPARTMENT, FROM

THERE HE FINISHED HIS CAREER

AT WINOOSKI AS A LIEUTENANT.

SO HE WAS PROBABLY 30 YEARS IN

LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> Darren: MICHAEL?

>> MY MIKE SERVED WITH THE

VERMONT STATE POLICE FOR 26

YEARS.

HE HAD A LONG CAREER WITH A

LOT OF DIFFERENT DUTIES DURING

THAT TIME.

>> Darren: AND BEFORE MIKE

CRAM PASSED, YOU FOLKS SET UP

THE 919 FOUNDATION.

TELL US THE SIGNIFICANCE, A,

OF THE NUMBER, AND WHAT THE

ORGANIZATION IS.

>> MIKE'S CALL NUMBER IN

WINOOSKI WAS 919, AND WHEN WE

REALIZED THAT HE WASN'T GOING

TO HAVE ANY MORE TREATMENTS,

WE CHOSE TO TAKE HIS LIFE

INSURANCE POLICY FROM THE

WINOOSKI PD AND START AN

ORGANIZATION AND WE CALLED IT

THE 919 FOUNDATION.

AND HE WAS VERY ADAMANT THAT

IT BE THE MONEY BE USED FOR

CANCER COMFORT.

HE HAD SEEN KIDS WHEN HE WAS

BEING TREATED.

THEY WERE SO-Y AND SO FULL OF

LIFE -- HAPPY, AND HE ADMIRED

THAT.

WE THOUGHT THAT WAS THE

PERFECT ORGANIZATION TO RAISE

MONEY FOR.

>> KIDS CAN JUST BE KIDS

THERE.

>> KIDS CAN BE KIDS AT CAMP.

>> YES.

FORGET ABOUT CANCER FOR A BIT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT ANOTHER

FUNDRAISER BY 14 STAR, THIS IS

A VETERAN-OWNED BREWERY IN ST.

ALBANS, THEY CAME OUT WITH A

919 CAN IN HONOR OF MIKE, AND

TO SUPPORT THE ORGANIZATION.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> YES.

WE PARTNERED WITH 14 STAR

ANDREA, AND HER BROTHER STEVE,

TO DO A FUNDRAISER, AND WE'RE

VERY CONSCIOUS OF THE DATES

THAT WE DO THINGS, SO WE

WANTED VETERAN'S DAY TO BE THE

LAUNCH.

IT WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL.

THE WEATHER WAS HORRIBLE, BUT

WE STILL GOT A REALLY GOOD

CREW TO COME OUT.

SGL AND THE MONEY FOR THAT

WILL GO TO CANCER CAMP.

>> YES.

SGL THIS PAST SUMMER A

MEMORIAL WALKWAY WAS SET UP AT

THE VETERANS CEMETERY IN HONOR

OF GENERAL HESTON.

TELL US ABOUT THAT, AND WHAT

DO YOU THINK HE WOULD THINK

ABOUT THAT?

FRJTS I THINK THAT HE WOULD --

>> I THINK THAT HE WOULD BE

TRULY HUMBLED.

HE WASN'T ONE FOR A LOT OF

ACCOLADES, BUT HE WOULD BE

VERY HONORED THAT THEY WOULD

NAME A WALKWAY FOR HIM AT THE

CEMETERY THAT HE OVERSAW FOR

SO MANY YEARS.

>> Darren: AND I KNOW THAT

THIS IS A DIFFICULT TIME

BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONE-YEAR

ANNIVERSARY.

FRJTS IT IS THE ONE-YEAR

ANNIVERSARY.

>> Darren: ARE YOU BOTH

CONVINCED STILL THAT THE BURN

PITS WERE THE CAUSE OF YOUR

HUSBANDS' DEATHS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> YES.

FOR MIKE IT HAS BEEN

CONFIRMED.

HE APPLIED FOR

SERVICE-CONNECTED DISABILITY

THROUGH THE DOD AND THROUGH

THE VA.

HE WAS DENIED THROUGH THE DOD,

BECAUSE YOU ONLY HAVE 180 DAYS

FROM QUALIFIED DUTY TO APPLY.

BUT HE DID RECEIVE

SERVICE-CONNECTED DISABILITY

FROM THE VA FOR HIS BURN PIT

EXPOSURE WHICH CAUSED CANCER.

>> Darren: PAT, YOU ARE STILL

FIGHTING FOR THIS.

>> WE ARE STILL FIGHTING.

OUR APPEAL RIGHT NOW IS THAT

VETERANS AFFAIRS IN

WASHINGTON, DC.

>> Darren: THERE HAS BEEN SOME

ACTION ON THIS AS WE'VE

REPORTED, VERMONT PASSED A

LAW, YOU KNOW, SMALL STEPS, IN

ACKNOWLEDGING THESE BURN PITS

COULD BE LIKELY CAUSING THESE

ILLNESSES.

THERE WAS A MOVE IN CONGRESS

TO GET THIS QUALIFIED AS A

DISABILITY.

CONGRESSMAN WELCH WON, PUSHING

THIS, PUSHING THIS.

IS ENOUGH BEING DONE?

I -- CONGRESSMAN WELCH IS ONE

PUSHING THIS.

IS THERE MORE DEVELOPMENT ON

THIS?

HE

>> THERE IS MORE.

CURRENTLY THERE'S 14 DIFFERENT

PIECES OF LEGISLATION BEING

PROPOSED FEDERALLY, AND NONE

OF IT HAS MOVED VERY QUICKLY,

BUT BECAUSE JON STEWART, WHO

HAS TAKEN ON THE FIGHT FOR THE

911 FIRST RESPONDERS WITH JOHN

P FEEL FROM THE FEEL GOOD

FOUNDATION, THEY WERE

SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING THAT

BENEFIT FOR THE FIRST

RESPONDERS EXTENDED TO 2092.

SO NOW THEY'VE JOINED THIS

FIGHT, BECAUSE IT IS

ESSENTIALLY THE SAME SORT OF

THING.

AND SO JON STEWART WENT TO

WASHINGTON, THERE WERE A GROUP

OF CONGRESSIONAL STAFF,

DSOAESHGS OTHER NON-PROFITS --

DSO'S, OTHER NON-PROFITS

FOCUSED ON BURN PIT EXPOSURE

AND OTHER TOXIC EXPOSURE, AND

WHAT IT WILL DO IS GET THE

GROUP TO COME TOGETHER AND

BUILD COMPREHENSIVE

LEGISLATION THAT MEETS

EVERYONE'S NEEDS, AND THE GOAL

IN THE END, ONCE THIS IS

WRITTEN, IS TO PROPOSE IT IN

SEPTEMBER, BUT TO HAVE IT,

THAT IT WOULD BE PRESUMPTIVE,

THAT IF YOU SERVED ANY TIME IN

9/11, YOU WERE EXPOSED.

IF IT WASN'T BURN PITS, AT

WHAT TIME CHEMICALS YOUR

UNIFORMS WERE SOAKED IN, OR IT

WAS THE MEDICATION YOU WERE

GIVEN FORMAL AREA.

THERE WERE A -- FOR MALARIA.

A LOT OF INCIDENCE TO BEING

EXPOSED TO TOXINS WHILE

SERVING OVERSEAS.

>> Darren: THANK YOU FOR YOUR

TIME, YOUR HUSBAND'S SERVICE

AND YOUR SERVICE AS WOMEN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR WATCHING,

EVERYBODY.

HAVE A GOOD DAY.

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